Has Sin Become a Joke?

[evilsorcerer1]

Consider:

1 Corinthians 6:18 (KJ21)
Flee fornication. Every other sin which a man doeth is outside the body, but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.​

Then consider

So, almost 9 out of every 10 people, 87%, say they would have sex before marriage even though it's a sin.

And considering that

"Eighty-three percent of Americans identify themselves as Christians.
source
​

it appears that a very large percentage of Christians don't care what the Bible says about sex and don't care what god thinks of their behavior. (I'm quite certain that even if they never read 1 Corinthians 6:18 they're still aware that premarital sex is a sin.)


So what's going on? What's your take on the situation?

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[evilsorcerer1]

The sad part is, if you consider all death sin, no matter how hard you try, it's impossible. Too many people don't care.

 

[BilliardsBall]

You may have this "sin nature," but not all of us do. We appreciate it if you don't try to degrade us all with your own belief that we all carry these shackles of shame and guilt.

I had no problems with cohabitation, and have not had any pains and guilt from having premarital sex. If anything, it helped me learn more of myself so that I won't inadvertently bring pains and guilt to a significant other because I just didn't know myself well enough.

Proof of the sin nature is simple. If you, like me, have ever sinned against conscience--if you've ever known something was inherently wrong, but did it anyway, because it felt good and/or you "couldn't help yourself"--you are living proof that you have a sin nature.

People with sin natures cannot live in utopias. Because I've trusted Christ for salvation, I've been assured that when the time comes, my sin nature will be removed. I will still be me in Heaven, but I will never again hurt another out of selfishness . . .

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Proof of the sin nature is simple. If you, like me, have ever sinned against conscience--if you've ever known something was inherently wrong, but did it anyway, because it felt good and/or you "couldn't help yourself"--you are living proof that you have a sin nature.

Why would I do that? If I know something is inherently wrong, if it is going to eat at my conscious, why would I do that? Is violating one's own conscious a common feature of Christians?

 

[BilliardsBall]

What a silly claim. The only people who reap a lifetime of pain and guilt for having premarital sex are the poor folks who were brainwashed by controlling authority figures into believing that having unmarried sex is sinful.

Logic dictates that unmarrieds can still get pregnant in many cases and deal with the financial and emotional fallout. AND any attempt you make to justify like "but unmarrieds can show the same fidelity as marrieds toward offspring and each other" happens to be an attempt to place unmarrieds on the same ethical plane as marrieds. So don't justify your false doctrine or you show ethics and morality are real and not "brainwashing".

 

[BilliardsBall]

The current trend underscores how our sin nature--the propensity to sin that is more important than any individual sin--causes us to harm ourselves and others. All the "try before you buy" concepts of cohabitation and sex are wrong. People who have premarital sex reap a lifetime of varying pains and guilt.

I agree. For many people sin has become passé.

This is an incredible claim, so let's see the evidence you're basing it on.

It's an incredible claim that f@#%#$^# about is just as safe for the human heart, unwanted pregnancy, STDs and etc. as purity until marriage?

Your claim that mine is "incredible" is credible evidence that the end is truly near.

Do you want your daughter to sleep with 25 people before she "settles"?

 

[Mister Silver]

Do you want your daughter to sleep with 25 people before she "settles"?

She can have sex with hundreds of guys before she settles, because it's not my place to dictate her adult sex life.

 

[LuisDantas]

Why would I do that? If I know something is inherently wrong, if it is going to eat at my conscious, why would I do that? Is violating one's own conscious a common feature of Christians?

And how is that any different from simple, run of the mill lack of wisdom, @BilliardsBall ?

 

[QuestioningMind]

Logic dictates that unmarrieds can still get pregnant in many cases and deal with the financial and emotional fallout. AND any attempt you make to justify like "but unmarrieds can show the same fidelity as marrieds toward offspring and each other" happens to be an attempt to place unmarrieds on the same ethical plane as marrieds. So don't justify your false doctrine or you show ethics and morality are real and not "brainwashing".

Of course ethics and morality are real concepts... who claimed otherwise? But the fact that they are real concepts doesn't mean that people can't be brainwashed into believing that virtually anything is ethical and moral. And an unmarried couple CAN potentially be on the same moral plain as a married couple when it comes to raising children. The fact that someone participates in a silly ceremony in no way makes them more moral or ethical than anyone else.

 

[QuestioningMind]

The current trend underscores how our sin nature--the propensity to sin that is more important than any individual sin--causes us to harm ourselves and others. All the "try before you buy" concepts of cohabitation and sex are wrong. People who have premarital sex reap a lifetime of varying pains and guilt.



It's an incredible claim that f@#%#$^# about is just as safe for the human heart, unwanted pregnancy, STDs and etc. as purity until marriage?

Your claim that mine is "incredible" is credible evidence that the end is truly near.

Do you want your daughter to sleep with 25 people before she "settles"?

Really, you're claiming that a person's morality is determined by the number of sexual partners they have? So a person could never lie or steal and dedicate their entire life towards helping out those less fortunate, but if they participate in consensual sex with one too many people then they are morally corrupt? My, you have a truly bizarre definition of morality.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Of course ethics and morality are real concepts... who claimed otherwise? But the fact that they are real concepts doesn't mean that people can't be brainwashed into believing that virtually anything is ethical and moral. And an unmarried couple CAN potentially be on the same moral plain as a married couple when it comes to raising children. The fact that someone participates in a silly ceremony in no way makes them more moral or ethical than anyone else.

And of course plenty of married parents are crappy and terrible parents, raising them in ways that are anything except moral and ethical. I also seem to recall a "final solution" that appeared to be the ethical and moral choice to a certain culture during a certain time. They also went on about how Christian they were, and that were for God and country, and carrying out the will of the Almighty himself.

 

[Skwim]

This is an incredible claim, so let's see the evidence you're basing it on.

It's an incredible claim that f@#%#$^# about is just as safe for the human heart, unwanted pregnancy, STDs and etc. as purity until marriage?
Your claim that mine is "incredible" is credible evidence that the end is truly near.
Do you want your daughter to sleep with 25 people before she "settles"?

I note that you have no evidence supporting you claim. Not that anyone here is surprised.

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[1robin]

And I didn't imply you did.

Well that was the implication I took from your reply because you only quoted the most innocuous portion of my post. It will all come out in the wash before it's over with anyway.

And that's just fine if you can't think of any.

Correct, I can't think of anything concerning God that affected by what you posted.

I posted the OP because it appears that a very large percentage of Christians don't care what the Bible says about sex and don't care what god thinks of their behavior, which seems to be a large departure from past Christian thinking. Subsequently, I wanted to see if anyone knew of a reason. Now, if all this isn't news to you, so be it. It is to me.

To build anything like the foundation of an argument in this context your going to have to establish some things.

1. How much sin do how many Christians commit?
2. How much sin does the bible infer Christians will commit?
3. How we could know either of those things?
4. What does whatever answers you come up with prove?
etc.........

Nor does it hint at why Donald Trump is such a moron. Point being: so what?

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It was your claim so it's meaningfulness is your responsibility. If you know what you say does not lead to anything then why bother?

 

[1robin]

Such self-contained and circular reasoning is blind obedience.

Hello, its been awhile Mr. Wolf. I do wish you would use lose the fancy text color though.

I have no idea what your talking about. Someone pointed out that they thought many Christians did not seem to be living consistent with their own morals. I simply replied that the bible makes clear that we all (Christians included) fail to perfectly meet God's standards. The difference is that Christians admit their failures and accept their need of a savior.

How you God a circular argument about blind obedience from that I have no idea.

 

[Skwim]

To build anything like the foundation of an argument in this context your going to have to establish some things.

1. How much sin do how many Christians commit?
2. How much sin does the bible infer Christians will commit?
3. How we could know either of those things?
4. What does whatever answers you come up with prove?
etc.........

No I don't. I can simply state the situation and express my impression

"It appears that . . . . . . ."​

and ask for clarification.

"So what's going on? What's your take on the situation?"​

It was your claim so it's meaningfulness is your responsibility. If you know what you say does not lead to anything then why bother?

That you don't find the implication of the figures to be interesting, so be it. But just because you don't why do you find it necessary to offer up those you do?

"It doesn't even hint that the bible is wrong, God does not exist, we are not in need of a savior, or that Christianity is on the decline in any respect."
​

I shouldn't have addressed the subject of the apparent rejection of premarital sex as sinful, or perhaps sin in general, but should have posted something relating to the veracity of the Bible, or the existence of god. This is plain goofy. You do see this don't you? Tell you what, if you want to talk about these things why not make your own thread? It isn't that difficult.

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[1robin]

No I don't. I can simply state the situation and express my impression

"It appears that . . . . . . ."​

and ask for clarification.

"So what's going on? What's your take on the situation?"​

That would be a good question with some clarification. Christians are not some monolithic block of people which stand of fall together across the globe and spanning millennia. We are all unique but if you can narrow it down to a relatively small group, a type of behavior, and specific time frame decade then maybe I can come up with an answer.

That you don't find the implication of the figures to be interesting, so be it. But just because you don't why do you find it necessary to offer up those you do?

What figures do you refer to?

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I shouldn't have addressed the subject of the apparent rejection of premarital sex as sinful, or perhaps sin in general, but should have posted something relating to the veracity of the Bible, or the existence of god. This is plain goofy. You do see this don't you? Tell you what, if you want to talk about these things why not make your own thread? It isn't that difficult.

It finally hit me that you already stated your conclusion. Your conclusion as so many non-theistic conclusions are stated in front of the argument. Your conclusion was dressed up as a question so it took me a few posts to get it.

Your conclusion is that sin is becoming a joke. I will be polite and leave it in question form.

Is sin becoming a joke? No, it is still destroying minds, lives, countries, and everything it comes in contact eventually. But the point I was making was that even if every claim you made was true, it would not prove that sin was becoming a joke one way or the other.

Now that I finally have nailed down what your driving at, I have the context in which to consider your claims.

 

[blü 2]

I don't see that - I see everyone doing what is profitable to them, money wise, sexual gratification wise.

But that includes believers as well as nonbelievers. And 'sexual gratification' is only a problem if age, lack of informed consent, breach of trust, or health are involved. Otherwise it's normal.

Guilt is a normal response to various actions and situations. It is not just a religious phantom, or fatamorgana.

Correct, but it's an instrument in too much Christian howling about 'sin', part of the old sales con of inciting fear of an imaginary problem then selling the suckers the solution that only you possess.

Please don't blame the Bible in this.

My point was that the bible knows all but nothing about modern science, yet the bible is the reason you don't accept the theory of evolution.

The alternative to the theory of evolution is magic ─ the magic of Harry Potter and Yahweh, altering reality independently of the rules of physics just by wishing and using magic words like 'Let there be light!' / 'Lumos!'.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Hello, its been awhile Mr. Wolf.

And how I wish you would learn to start acting like a Christian, and acting as such.

 

[Skwim]

What figures do you refer to?

Those in the OP.

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[1robin]

And how I wish you would learn to start acting like a Christian, and acting as such.

Do you always respond with a polite greeting with a horrific allegation based on information you do not have? I would hate to walk around that miserable all the time.

Again, and for the last time what are you talking about? And what is it based upon?