Has Sin Become a Joke?

[Shadow Wolf]

Do you always respond with a polite greeting with a horrific allegation based on information you do not have? I would hate to walk around that miserable all the time.

Well, Mrs. Robin, that wasn't a kind, friendly, warm, or polite greeting.

 

[1robin]

Those in the OP.

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​

I have not commented on the figures in the OP one way or another. I have been pointing out that what a Christian does has no effect on what Christianity or God actually is. An analogy would be that Pluto remained unaffected when scientists revoked its status as a planet.

I believe you agreed to that. For some reason it irritated you to do so, but you did agree. So now we can move on.

Your stats appear to be opinion polls concerning promiscuity, in the US, at an unspecified time. Are you asking why those numbers are what they are? Questions like this require complex answers so I want to make sure I understand exactly what your asking.

 

[1robin]

Well, Mrs. Robin, that wasn't a kind, friendly, warm, or polite greeting.

Hello, its been awhile Mr. Wolf.

That greeting is about as polite as they get. Since every post you have made so far has been an obnoxious personal attack I think I will suspend our discussion for now. Take a nap or something.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That greeting is about as polite as they get.

If calling a woman a man is considered "about as polite as they get" in your parts, then please let me know where you live because apparently it's a place over ran with some very seriously rude ********.

 

[1robin]

If calling a woman a man is considered "about as polite as they get" in your parts, then please let me know where you live because apparently it's a place over ran with some very seriously rude ********.

What are you saying? That your a female, and your infuriated because I assumed you were a male in an environment where I cannot see what sex you are? If so, for pity's sake your overly sensitive. I must have you confused with another person and the lack of an avatar contributes to doing so. The person I thought I was responding to is male, a good debater, and polite so I guess I had you completely confused with someone else. Hardly makes for a unpardonable personal attack. Now as I have said I have no desire to discuss anything with you while your in this frame of mind. Get back to me when you normalize.

 

[Skwim]

I have not commented on the figures in the OP one way or another. I have been pointing out that what a Christian does has no effect on what Christianity or God actually is. An analogy would be that Pluto remained unaffected when scientists revoked its status as a planet.

I believe you agreed to that. For some reason it irritated you to do so, but you did agree. So now we can move on.

Your stats appear to be opinion polls concerning promiscuity, in the US, at an unspecified time. Are you asking why those numbers are what they are? Questions like this require complex answers so I want to make sure I understand exactly what your asking.

OMG!
If you took the time to reread my OP you'd know what I'm asking. But to save you the time and expense of having to go back, I'm re-posting them here along with their set-up

The set-up
Considering that "Eighty-three percent of Americans identify themselves as Christians it appears that a very large percentage of Christians don't care what the Bible says about sex and don't care what god thinks of their behavior. (I'm quite certain that even if they never read 1 Corinthians 6:18 they're still aware that premarital sex is a sin.)

The questions
So what's going on? What's your take on the situation?
​

Now, if you don't know what's going on and don't want to offer your take on the situation, fine. Or if the questions are still too difficult, that's fine too. However, If you do know what's going on and care to tell us, and want to offer your take on the situation, great.

.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

What are you saying? That your a female, and your infuriated because I assumed you were a male in an environment where I cannot see what sex you are? If so, for pity's sake your overly sensitive. I must have you confused with another person and the lack of an avatar contributes to doing so. The person I thought I was responding to is male, a good debater, and polite so I guess I had you completely confused with someone else. Hardly makes for a unpardonable personal attack. Now as I have said I have no desire to discuss anything with you while your in this frame of mind. Get back to me when you normalize.

No avatar? It's a symbol of Venus. My profile is clearly marked as female, and there have been no other wolves in these parts for some time now.
There is also to consider that a few Conservatives (yourself included) have seemed to have went out of their way just to refer to me by masculine nouns and adjectives.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Of course ethics and morality are real concepts... who claimed otherwise? But the fact that they are real concepts doesn't mean that people can't be brainwashed into believing that virtually anything is ethical and moral. And an unmarried couple CAN potentially be on the same moral plain as a married couple when it comes to raising children. The fact that someone participates in a silly ceremony in no way makes them more moral or ethical than anyone else.

It is unethical to call the sacrament and statute of marriage silly. Your words betray your feelings (and bias), Padawan.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Really, you're claiming that a person's morality is determined by the number of sexual partners they have? So a person could never lie or steal and dedicate their entire life towards helping out those less fortunate, but if they participate in consensual sex with one too many people then they are morally corrupt? My, you have a truly bizarre definition of morality.

The number of partners they have in serial monogamy or simultaneously?

Do you want your daughter to have two partners before marriage or 202? Why?

 

[BilliardsBall]

She can have sex with hundreds of guys before she settles, because it's not my place to dictate her adult sex life.

I understand you support your daughter's bodily autonomy. Do you have a preference for her to have sex with two people before she weds or 202?

PS. It's a rhetorical question. I'm trying to get you to think.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Why would I do that? If I know something is inherently wrong, if it is going to eat at my conscious, why would I do that? Is violating one's own conscious a common feature of Christians?

I see!

You are the ONLY person I've met apart from Jesus who never sins against conscience. You NEVER do something you know to be harmful to yourself or another simply because it feels good or you cannot help it.

I've asked MANY people about their sins against conscience, as in hundreds . . . ?

You are truly unique.

PS. And not telling the truth.

 

[BilliardsBall]

I note that you have no evidence supporting you claim. Not that anyone here is surprised.

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I need evidence to support my claim that people who sleep with no one before marriage are in better shape to handle marriage than people who sleep with 1,500 people before marriage?

Yawn.

 

[Mister Silver]

I understand you support your daughter's bodily autonomy. Do you have a preference for her to have sex with two people before she weds or 202?

You clearly did not understand what I said previously. It is her body, she can have sex with as many men as she wants before she weds. My preference for what she does is a non-issue.

 

[Scott C.]

Consider:

1 Corinthians 6:18 (KJ21)
Flee fornication. Every other sin which a man doeth is outside the body, but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.​

Then consider

So, almost 9 out of every 10 people, 87%, say they would have sex before marriage even though it's a sin.

And considering that

"Eighty-three percent of Americans identify themselves as Christians.
source
​

it appears that a very large percentage of Christians don't care what the Bible says about sex and don't care what god thinks of their behavior. (I'm quite certain that even if they never read 1 Corinthians 6:18 they're still aware that premarital sex is a sin.)


So what's going on? What's your take on the situation?

.

If those stats are correct, it seems that many (most) who self identify as Christian, have no problem with fornication under many circumstances. I suppose it's easier to self identify as "Christian" than it is to really understand and embrace the faith in your heart and behavior.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You NEVER do something you know to be harmful to yourself or another simply because it feels good or you cannot help it.

I literally do not understand why someone would do something if it offends their conscious. Stealing would bother me because it is wrongfully depriving another of what is rightfully theirs. Killing wrongfully ends the life of another. Lying just creates too many stories to keep track of, and can make you look like a fool when you're lying for someone else.
Is this just something Christians do? If I know something is wrong, I'm not going to do it. If I wanted to offend and violate my conscious, I probably would have taken a job at a slaughterhouse/meat processing plant, but the sounds I heard as I walked away from my interview set off my conscious in a way that pretty much made impossible for me to work there and be able to live with myself.

PS. And not telling the truth.

So you assume. 10 years ago when I didn't care about really anything, I was, but I've grown by leaps and bounds as a person since then, and I don't do stuff like that anymore.
And, of course, it begs the question of what happens when a certain behavior no longer violates one's conscious? Was it "sin" only when I first started shoplifting, only while it was bothering me and I hesitated and got so anxious as I walked out the store and then "not sin" once I could pick something up and walk out the store without giving it a second thought? Or what about things that didn't bother us at the time, but we look back and realize how dumb, foolish, and reckless we were in a previous time? And also what of the truly dangerous psychopaths who can kill and don't feel the conscious hesitation, remorse, or regret over killing someone? What if it's a soldier who kills an enemy soldier in the heat of battle, but is haunted by it later on?

 

[Skwim]

If those stats are correct, it seems that many (most) who self identify as Christian, have no problem with fornication under many circumstances. I suppose it's easier to self identify as "Christian" than it is to really understand and embrace the faith in your heart and behavior.

I think many Christians have stopped embracing a lot of god's directives. Among others we have . . .

“I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.” (1 Timothy 2:12)

“Do not allow a sorceress to live.” (Exodus 22:18)

“Happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us – he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.” (Psalm 137:9)

If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:13)

“Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord.” (Ephesians 5:22)

“Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel.” (1 Peter 2:18)

If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:9)

.​

 

[1robin]

OMG!
If you took the time to reread my OP you'd know what I'm asking. But to save you the time and expense of having to go back, I'm re-posting them here along with their set-up

The set-up
Considering that "Eighty-three percent of Americans identify themselves as Christians it appears that a very large percentage of Christians don't care what the Bible says about sex and don't care what god thinks of their behavior. (I'm quite certain that even if they never read 1 Corinthians 6:18 they're still aware that premarital sex is a sin.)

The questions
So what's going on? What's your take on the situation?
​

Now, if you don't know what's going on and don't want to offer your take on the situation, fine. Or if the questions are still too difficult, that's fine too. However, If you do know what's going on and care to tell us, and want to offer your take on the situation, great.

.

I did read your Op, that is why I basically quoted you and asked if that was what you wanted me to explain or not. I even explained the reason I wanted clarification was because the answer would be long.

Anyway, your actually asking a complex question and so it's answer will be complex. It will be composed of many parts, so lets take just one to start with.

Your source data seemed to be concerned with Americans. That is too large a group in one context and too small a group in another but who cares at this point.

The US has a very polarized history. Most of our history was governed by traditional Christian morality. While Christians still make up a large portion of our population they are in many ways a much different type of Christians compared to the past and we live in a very different age these days. We are saturated and immersed in the global norms of our day unlike any time in the past and all groups are influenced by those around them. Lets just take one example for now.

There was a secular revolution in this nation that occurred during the 1950's and almost every statistic from morality to debt went sharply negative beginning at the same time the secular revolution began.

A very easy way to see the virtual 180 degree reverse in morality lining up with those dates is to look at a TV guide from the 50s compared with a recent one. We went from leave it to beaver to sex and the city, from shows that shamed kissing in middle school to shows that make promiscuity into a virtue, from a shadow hand holding a knife projected on a wall to shows with body counts higher than some actual battles. From a time where a photo of a women in a bikini would get you sent home from school to a time where you can watch actual porn while in school.

That's a start, lets see where you want to go from here.

I will sum all this up by saying that outside influence is at least a place to start.

 

[Scott C.]

I think many Christians have stopped embracing a lot of god's directives. Among others we have . . .

“I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.” (1 Timothy 2:12)

“Do not allow a sorceress to live.” (Exodus 22:18)

“Happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us – he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.” (Psalm 137:9)

If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:13)

“Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord.” (Ephesians 5:22)

“Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel.” (1 Peter 2:18)

If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:9)

.​

Some of that should not be followed today. The Law of Moses was fulfilled by Christ, so there is no longer a God instituted death penalty for sin. That covers several of your quotes.

​

 

[1robin]

No avatar? It's a symbol of Venus. My profile is clearly marked as female, and there have been no other wolves in these parts for some time now.
There is also to consider that a few Conservatives (yourself included) have seemed to have went out of their way just to refer to me by masculine nouns and adjectives.

Look just chill out a day or two and then we can have a discussion. No one tried to offend you. Your avatar does not appear on my computer for some reason, I do not waste my time gratuitously offending people, and if I did I would be far more emphatic than to intentionally bother with a person's gender.

Not that I am in any way as sensitive as you are but why did you say I was a Conservative?

 

[QuestioningMind]

It is unethical to call the sacrament and statute of marriage silly. Your words betray your feelings (and bias), Padawan.

It's unethical to call a human created legal contract silly? What a BIZARRE definition of ethics you have. Seems to me that it's YOU who is betraying your biases. What makes you think that you have the right to define what marriage is for everyone else? Mighty presumptuous of you.