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Featured God - Is this knowledge the ultimate aim?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Tony Bristow-Stagg, Feb 16, 2019.

?
  1. No

    9 vote(s)
    47.4%
  2. Yes

    2 vote(s)
    10.5%
  3. No with explanation

    4 vote(s)
    21.1%
  4. Yes with explanation

    4 vote(s)
    21.1%
  5. I have another view - I will explain in a post.

    1 vote(s)
    5.3%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    To the contrary, i never said science, history, or psychology isnt real. God isnt real, only thing i said. And you mention ideas, when i said ideals. IdeaLs!
     
  2. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    I greatly admire the way you reacted to what you found happening to you. I think you're an exceptional person to have responded as you did; with such honesty, reason, and awareness.

    My only point to you would be that you don't have to give up on faith in God just because you have no material proof of it's existence. The idea (ideal) is real enough, and the positive effectiveness of it in your life experience should be evidence enough to warrant maintaining it (and continuing to modify it for positive effectiveness). The real gift of faith in God is that it helps us transcend ourselves. And you discovered this early on. I think that's a really great and important thing! Many humans will never 'get this' no matter how faithful they try to be to the ideal.
     
    #42 PureX, Feb 17, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2019
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  3. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium सच्चितानन्द
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    First, let's have a clear definition of the term "depiction."

    Merriam-Webster defines depiction as "a representation in words or images of someone or something"
    Definition of DEPICTION

    How do you know these are not depictions of actual gods? How many actual gods have you seen?

    Help me to understand the distinction you are making between "god" and "god-ideal" or "god-spirit."
     
  4. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium सच्चितानन्द
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    To how many of the artists who created these depictions have you spoken to come to such a conclusion? Or do you always present your assumptions at factual statements?
     
  5. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    The problem with dictionaries is that the can only approximate the meaning of a word by using synonyms. If "depiction" really equaled "representation" then we wouldn't have developed and maintained the two different words. So, clearly, logically, they are not equivalent in meaning. A "depiction" refers to how a thing looks, or appears, whereas a "representation" refers to the essence of the thing, and not just to it's appearance. Artists since the dawn of time have sought to "depict" how things look in just such a way as to "represent" the essence of the thing being depicted. And not just it's appearance. This is the significant difference between the two intents, and results.

    God-images are very rarely, if ever, intended to "depict the appearance" of a god. They are intended to "represent the essence" (spirit) of the god's ideal. This is the fundamental difference between depiction and representation. And the recognition of this difference should be applied to the many myths related to the gods, as well, as they are also representations, and NOT actual depictions of the gods, in word form.
     
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  6. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium सच्चितानन्द
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    I don't care what definition we use, nor do I have any interest in your problem with dictionaries or in your opinions about the equivalency in the meaning of terms.

    My only purpose in posting a dictionary definition was so we can agree on a definition. Until we can do so, any discussion on the topic is meaningless.

    Is this your personal opinion or are you submitting this claim as an objective truth? If the latter, please post a link to substantiate your claim or name the artists of these depictions you've spoken to personally that have stated that this was their intention.
     
  7. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    I have a masters degree in fine art. I am an artist myself, and have associated with a great many other artists in my lifetime. Just as one doctor or lawyer does not need to ask all other doctors and lawyers what law and medicine entails, I do not have to ask all artists what the making of art entails. I write with authority on the subject because I am an authority on the subject. I understand the difference between depiction and representation. Now it's up to you to learn about the difference from me, or not.
     
  8. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium सच्चितानन्द
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    You're deflecting. Our discussion has little to do with the difference between 'depiction' and 'representation.' Let me help you to return to the actual topic.

    So you are defining "depiction" as a reference to how a thing looks, or appears. So since you didn't like the definition I offered, let's run with this one.

    You stated that the images are not depictions of gods, but depictions of "god-ideal" or "god-spirit." You have yet to offer the distinction.

    Also, you have yet offer up anything to substantiate the intent of the artists of these images to the effect that they were not depicting a god, but merely (using your words) representing an ideal or spirit.
     
  9. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    No, i dont, what does the image of a nonentity look like?

    But there is no doubt they are listed under depictions of god and created by adults.

    Your opinion doesn't really come into it.
     
  10. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    Yes, so am i with 2 BAs, a BSc and 2 MSc in art based subjects and made a very successful career in art

    One thing (of many) i have learned from that is that no one can speak with authority on the mindset of another artist.
     
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  11. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    I'm not here to fight with your desire not to understand the difference between depiction and representation. And clearly, you are now actively working at not understanding it. The ego has been triggered and you are in full 'auto-defend' mode. So I will leave you to it. I am not in the habit of trying to push through other people's closed doors.
     
  12. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium सच्चितानन्द
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    *smiles* Project much?
     
  13. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    The mindset of the artist is irrelevant if it's not presented to us by the artwork. But to interpret a work of art one must be willing to THINK about precisely what we are seeing and why it was put there by another human being for us to see. And since as you have already pointed out, it's impossible to depict a god's appearance, as none of us have ever actually seen one (that we can know of), we must assume that when we see an image that's labelled "god" we are not looking at a depiction, but rather at an idealized representation. And in fact, 'depictions' aren't really even artworks at all, as they lack the purpose for which works of art are made. They only convey the appearance of a thing (a technical craft), and not the artist's perceived/experienced/idealized essence of it.

    But these are discussions that happened in the studio arts and advanced aesthetics classes, so I guess you must have missed them.
     
  14. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    No person on this website does not know the grand purpose of life regardless whether they believe or do not believe. No human can know the real purpose of their existence even those that believed. I quote here, the Qur’an again which specifically states that “all things are appointed a specific time” which means all things have a fixed time of their existence.

    As a person that deals with emergent issues I’ve been a witness to newborns dying to toddlers. What was their purpose if their lives were cut so short? What was the purpose of Adopf Hitler who had a hand in the murder of millions of people? I think as we live life we continuously write and rewrite what our individual purpose is through our actions in this world. I believe individually we define what we think we are here for but on a grand level none of us know, much less believe we seek to understand or know God.
     
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  15. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium सच्चितानन्द
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    Speaking as one that has spent a great deal of time in meditation on this question as a result of personal experience, the best answer I can give is for the purpose of experience, not necessarily of the one dying, but of those close to them. Experiencing such a thing can have as profound an impact on one’s perspective of being as a mystical experience can.
     
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  16. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    If you say so. Not sure how much of a mystical experience one can have watching their newborn die from a bullet through the chest. Don’t understand why someone would necessarily experience something like that in relation to the purpose of experiencing. It’s easy to make such assessments when it doesn’t happen to you.
     
  17. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium सच्चितानन्द
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    It would do you well to reread my post for two reasons:

    First, I never said or implied that watching someone die early in life was a mystical experience.

    Second, I’m unclear as to the reason you would assume such a thing hasn’t happened to me despite the fact that I said I had personal experience with it.
     
  18. Remté

    Remté Active Member

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    Science is just looking for ways to make things easier while we're here.. I Don't know why it is so often thought of as contradicting faith. They go side by side perfectly.
     
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  19. Politesse

    Politesse Amor Vincit Omnia

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    Why settle for knowledge of God, when you can achieve unity with God?
     
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  20. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
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    I reject the concept of ultimate aim with regards to life.
     
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