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Featured God - Is this knowledge the ultimate aim?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Tony Bristow-Stagg, Feb 16, 2019.

?
  1. No

    9 vote(s)
    47.4%
  2. Yes

    2 vote(s)
    10.5%
  3. No with explanation

    4 vote(s)
    21.1%
  4. Yes with explanation

    4 vote(s)
    21.1%
  5. I have another view - I will explain in a post.

    1 vote(s)
    5.3%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    I wrote; "... if it's not presented to us by the artwork." I guess you just didn't see this part of the sentence.
    Artists often aren't trying to "say" anything. They are trying to share their experience of being, within a specific context, with the rest of us. They do that through the subjects they choose to address, and how they choose to address them. And then we have to "read" their choices, as recorded by their artworks, through intuition, our own experience, reason, imagination, empathy, and so on.

    A Van Gogh painting is not a 'depiction' of haystacks in a field. It is the (re)presentation of how Van Gogh experienced those haystacks in the field. How he experienced the light, and the breeze, and the sounds, and the 'energy' of that specific moment in time and place. And he conveys that experience to us through his arrangement of forms on the picture plane, and his choice and use of colors, and his application of brush-strokes, and even his context within the history of painting. Art isn't 'depiction'. It's simultaneous interpretation and representation.
    People believe all sorts of things. But believing things doesn't make them true, or even possible. I can believe I've seen God, or not, but I can't know that what I believe happened, is what happened. Because we humans fool ourselves all the time, and have no way of detecting our own foolishness with certitude. Most artists understand this better than most non-artists do because they deal with the unique way they experience reality as part of their life's work. And they have to use the 'language' of universal experience to convey that uniqueness to others, successfully.
     
    #61 PureX, Feb 17, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2019
  2. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    Taoists would take that a little further and assert that there is no way for a human to obtain 'knowledge of God' (tao), but that we can nevertheless achieve alignment with the Expressed Divine.
     
  3. Politesse

    Politesse Amor Vincit Omnia

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    I like Taoists! I don't know that most Taoists would choose to translate Tao as the knowledge of God though!
     
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  4. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    You really have no idea of what art it have you? You have learned to be technical about it but just dont get the feeling do you?

    "Their experience" not yours, thank you

    Your Van Gogh statement completely disses your earlier statement "The mindset of the artist is irrelevant" but i doubt you will actually understand that.

    They believe, that is the point, your opinion on anothers belief is precisely that, opinion.
     
  5. Frankie85

    Frankie85 New Member

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    I actually disproved God once, yes, I was helping these syrian refugees in Greece for 8 months and since they came from a war helping them was extremely demanding, so what I did I was in the church sometimes praying to get a little help but i never got it, but the most important thing here and my point is that I truly felt it in my heart to get help with them, yes like truly and deeply in my heart that I should have gotten some help with them, so during this time I disproved God simply by not getting help when needed, don`t get me wrong, I know many people pray and things, but this was a honest and deeply feeling in my heart that I should have gotten help wih them
     
  6. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    I see that supports what was offered about records being lost. A few cave paintings does not tell us what they did, or did not know about God and what they may have practiced in Faith. The creation stories of Australian Aboriginal people go back this far as well.

    Humanity also goes through stages of growth. At one time humanity was as a child with child like comprehension. Humanity has now reached the stage where we are just emerging from adolescence. As we know, adolescent years are turmoil as we find what it is to be an adult.

    Regards Tony
     
  7. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    The statement I see is a 'What If' for some and known Truth for others.

    If creation is of God, then that is all science can find. From a Faith perspective there is a known barrier where we have no access to. We can not know the Esence of God, only the attributes.

    Also from a Faith perspective, there has been given in this age a detailed explanation as to how existence did come into being. Once humanity finds unity, my guess is this table will greatly aid science in understanding the structure for the source of life.

    Regards Tony
     
  8. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    Yes that is entirely our choice, which some of us are free to make.

    It would be good to find our unity, so all have the chance of free choice. When that happens, we will be amazed at the progress we can make as a species.

    Regards Tony
     
  9. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    I see humanity will not find its peace and security unless and until its unity is firmly established.

    Science and Faith can not prosper until we find unity and our collective mind works together.

    Thus I practice this unity by seeing that I am part of the whole, we as a whole now have to implement that unity.

    It starts with each of us, how else could it happen?

    Regards Tony
     
  10. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    Wheras I think it is possible to know a lot about this subject.

    It may just be a matter of where we choose to look for the answers. Which brings back God into the mix.

    Regards Tony
     
  11. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    That is our choice.

    I personally see great bounty in having an aim and that aim includes a lifetime of hard work focused on the Love of all. Life becomes its own reward.

    Regards Tony
     
  12. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    I see all things happen in life for a reason and with some things there is no quick fix.

    Our disunity has made these situations grow and fester, humanity is now very sick.

    Well done for helping, the world needs many helpers. I see the key is not to give up, as all prayers are answered, we just sometimes do not see the answer.

    Regards Tony
     
  13. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    A few? Right, i have been researching them as a hobby for 10 years and havent made a dent in whats out there. I examined over 900 last year

    Glad you said creation "stories"

    Actually in terms of brain size humanity had gone backwards from cro magon times. So your last paragraph seems to be opinion and is ignored
     
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  14. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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  15. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    It supports the view that faith in God is progressive, that as we evolve as a species, our mind is able to grasp greater concepts.

    What is Truth, does not change, our ability to understand the structure we are born to, does.

    Regards Tony
     
  16. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    Size does not indicate potential of capacity. Look at what can be produced from splitting an atom.

    Sorry must go, will get back to all this tonight.

    Regards Tony
     
  17. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    We? I'm already amazed at the progress. You aren't?
     
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  18. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    There are many great things unfolding, that I see supports a great future. At the same time I see too much effort aimed at making war and I see this is holding back our potential.

    I see the mind of man needs to be seeking its unity.

    Regards Tony
     
  19. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    I see man benefiting from a true tolerance of differences. But I could be wrong. As long as some folks stand against atheists, homosexuals, or anyone different from them, it's likely problems will occur.
     
  20. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    I know no Baha'i that stands against any persons choices.

    I can conclude if you choose to be a Baha'i you will not then be an Athiest and in any other case, would have accepted, or would be willing to explore the wisdom offered in the Laws of the Faith.

    This also leads back to the 'what if' posted in the OP.

    Regards Tony
     
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