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Featured Evidence God Is

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by nPeace, Nov 7, 2018.

  1. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    That mental work went into its programming and operation. Objectives and functions are carried out. My intuition says there is reasoning in the makings. Maybe its all adapting on the fly, or it was preprogrammed to adapt.

    I cant yet see it being totally haphazard
     
  2. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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  3. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    I can't speak for the Vedas. Hindus believe in reincarnation (union with god loosely translated). Rebirth is non attachment. Loosely translated.

    Ive never been a sacred book person. How did you come to know those books are from god?

    Any book can speak for itself; so, it must go beyond talking about itself.
     
  4. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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    I see numerous patterns in nature, but absolutely zero evidence that any of it was intelligently designed. In fact, if someone did design nature they often did not do so intelligently.
     
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  5. sealchan

    sealchan Well-Known Member

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    What would natural, non-intelligent design look like? Or is everything intelligently designed?
     
  6. Woberts

    Woberts The Perfumed Seneschal

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  7. Jose Fly

    Jose Fly Fisker of men

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    No, sorry...that makes no sense to me.

    As you can see, the life cycle that specifically allows it to infect and kill humans is extremely complex. If that complexity wasn't "designed" by God, how then did it come to be?
     
  8. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    What do you mean?

    There is none in and of itself, only what humans (our brains) put together; thats a fact.

    How is there a designer outside your conclusion based on "there is creation so there must be a designer"?

    Take our neorons and how they create thoughts signals and emotions. Is it a pattern? Humans think so. What about seizures? In other illnesses, cancer? What about the mind, body, and brain going out of its patter (if you like) to create something totally outside what we think is the natural order?

    Years ago, I was inpatient in the hospital with EEG wires on my head. The doctor told me seizures happen on its own. The body goes in and out of seizures. Thats just how the brain works.

    But we see a pattern that neurons are supposed to act like X and when they act like Y once in a blue moon, its adnormal and becomes a condition.

    There are many spontenous activities outside of our norm that is perfect normal to nature.

    A designer would have had to create nature haphazard for it to make some sense in context. If a designer is expected to create a perfect design, thats not how nature works.

    The other example is about the letters and the brain. If we are given mixed up letters are brains try to make sense of it by connecting the dots. Its natural for us to find connection where there is no connection there.

    That is natural, but a designer? A deity? That is a bit far fetched. What I believe there is no origin and there is no termination. Everything is shifting and changing. Stars create and explode. Humans turn to ash not disappear. Its the cycle of life not a linear equation.

    So there is no creator. If I defined god it would be how my signature defines it. Because it is an It.

    How did you draw a conclusion that a deity or however defined created everything?

    I understand teh concept creation needs a creator but how did you draw the conclusion that this creator is a deity? that it does things for you? It interacts? Its biblical and not say Pagan or Indian view?

    Did you trust what you read in the bible or does it go beyond that?
     
  9. leroy

    leroy Well-Known Member

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    Are you saying that there is no objective method to detect desing? Is there any one one can objectively conclude that “something was design” even if we don’t see the designer?
     
  10. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Of course. We can observe what we figure is a design but what about those things that go off course? Things we could not predict? The weather is a big example.

    If I saw life as a design, Id be taking life for granted. In my ongoing experiences, there is no design. There is no fixed pattern that, when broken, becomes adnormal. People develop illnesses for no reason. Its what the body does by causes and affects. Its a cycle.

    Whatever has an affect has a cause. So there is no origin; no designer; nothing like that. Unless the designer is creation, as being spirit not human, I cant make sense of it.
     
  11. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    0:30 - 0:40

    We? [​IMG]
    Listen to the narrator again... 0:30 - 0:40.

    No one is saying that animals don't have intelligence.
    I truly admire, and marvel at the intelligence of animals, but do you believe that they have the consciousness that humans do?
    For example, do you think they are concerned about questions such as, "Why are we here? Where are we going? What happens if we die? Can we live again?" ... and other questions of that nature?
    That's what I think the video you had a problem with, was saying.
     
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  12. leroy

    leroy Well-Known Member

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    sure
    Sometimes our brains invent patterns, but there are objective ways to determine If a pattern is real or illusory.



    That by itself is evidence for God.

    Why would “naturalistic evolution” create brains that wonder about the existence of God, the meaning of life, the origin of the universe and other selectively useless stuff? Evolution in theory would be grate in produce brains that are very good in surviving, but why would evolution create brains that care about deep philosophical stuff.
     
  13. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Hm.
    We dont inevent on purpose, though. Its what our brains do to survive.

    They are illusory. I have a TedTalk video on this fact if youre interested.

    How so?

    Its just a theory that people are hoping to find god in a godless world. Grapping at straws for objective evidence than subjective conclusions; which, there is nothing wrong with.

    It isnt innate. A lot of us have never wondered about it because we were not around people who do. Majority doesnt make god-feelings innate.

    I only came about the meaning of life since I was on RF. I never questioned it until I started looking at my values and how I personally define my life. Then I realize the lesson of death when my aunt passed away this year and my grandmother not too long ago. Other experiences made me came to the conclusion there is no life after death; there is no supernatural soul.

    What you are saying is drawing conclusions based on your need to find purpose whether suconsciously and/or not. That is fine but not everyone thinks that way.

    It is literally what it is. Its up to us to make sense out of it.

    What would you do if you found out you had no purpose and there was no design? Honestly?
     
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  14. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    That's understandable.
    A pattern can be a design, either deliberate or not.
    It may be formed by something designed.
    For example, a caterpillar - the machine, I mean - was designed, and the tracks it leaves on a surface (e.g. sand), form a pattern, but not from a designer.

    Design however, is not a pattern. It may follow a pattern though, or form patterns.
     
  15. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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    Exactly... you are seeing patterns and mistakenly conclude that it indicates design.
     
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  16. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

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    Thats presumptious conjecture to say there is none intelligence involved in the makings of life. Its a philosophical position. Whatever did decide that nature followed your rulebook of conclusions people?
     
  17. Salvador

    Salvador RF's Swedenborgian

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    There is indeed a mark of intelligence left in our genetic code as evident by how the numeric and semantic message of 037 appears in our genetic code. Each codon relates to 3 other particular codons having the same particular type of initial nucleobase and sequential nucleobase subsequently then followed by a different ending nucleobase. Half of these 4 set of codon groups ( whole family codons ) each code for the same particular amino acid. The other half of those 4 set of codon groups ( split codons ) don't code for the same amino acid. So then, in the case of whole family codons, there are 37 amino acid peptide chain nucleons for each relevant nucleobase determinant of how a particular amino acid gets coded. Start codons express 0 at the beginning of 37 Hence, the meaningful numeric and semantic message of 037 gets unambiguously and factually conveyed to us descendants of our cosmic ancestor(s) with our genetic code invented by a superior intelligence beyond that of anybody presently bound to Earth.

    “There is no plausible chemical logic to couple directly the triplets and the amino acids. In other words, the principles of chemistry where not the sought essence of the genetic code”

    “The zero is the supreme abstraction of arithmetic. Its use by any alphabet, including the genetic code, can be an indicator of artificiality.”

    "The place-value decimal system represented through digital symmetry of the numbers divisible by prime number (PN 037). This arithmetical syntactic feature is an innate attribute of the genetic code. The PN 037 notation with a leading zero emphasizes zero's equal participation in the digital symmetry. Numbers written by identical digits are devised by PN 037*3=111 and 1+1+1=3 and appear regularly [from the figure: 037*6 =222 and 2+2+2=6, 037*9=333 and 3+3+3 =9, 037*4=444 and 4+4+4=12, 037*15=555 and 5+5+5=15, 037*18=666 and 6+6+6=18, 037*21=777 and 7+7+7 =21. 037*24 =888 and 8+8+8=24, 037*27=999 and 9+9+9=27.)"

    "There is a complete set of information symbols utilizing the decimal syntax 111, 222, 333, 444, 555, 666, 777, 888, 999 in the genetic code. Each of these symbols consists uniformly of a carrier (balanced nucleons) and a meaning (the decimal syntax)."

    Reference: The "Wow! signal" of the terrestrial genetic code. Vladimir l. shCherbak and Maxim A. Makukov.Redirectinghttps://www.scribd.com/document/35302916...netic-Code

    This informational and artificial characteristic of the WOW signal of the terrestrial genetic code demonstrates intelligent design.

    This intelligent signal transmitted via genetic code that has been documented and confirmed by scientists researching the WOW signal of the terrestrial genetic code is prima facie evidence for an intelligent designer.

    The authors who discovered this mark of intelligence embedded in our genetic code show that "the terrestrial code displays a thorough precision-type orderliness matching the criteria to be considered an informational signal. Simple arrangements of the code reveal an ensemble of arithmetical and ideographical patterns of the same symbolic language. Accurate and systematic, these underlying patterns appear as a product of precision logic and nontrivial computing rather than of stochastic processes (the null hypothesis that they are due to chance coupled with presumable evolutionary pathways is rejected with P-value < 10–13). The patterns are profound to the extent that the code mapping itself is uniquely deduced from their algebraic representation. The signal displays readily recognizable hallmarks of artificiality, among which are the symbol of zero, the privileged decimal syntax and semantical symmetries. Besides, extraction of the signal involves logically straightforward but abstract operations, making the patterns essentially irreducible to any natural origin. Plausible ways of embedding the signal into the code and possible interpretation of its content are discussed. Overall, while the code is nearly optimized biologically, its limited capacity is used extremely efficiently to pass non-biological information."

    Reference: The "Wow! signal" of the terrestrial genetic code. Vladimir l. shCherbak and Maxim A. Makukov.Redirectinghttps://www.scribd.com/document/35302916...netic-Code

    Exactly who/what left its/their mark in our genetic coding might not ever get determined by anybody presently bound to Earth. The search for our cosmic relatives and cosmic common ancestor likely then needs to be done with advanced space exploration. I'd like to urge you then to please advise our Senate, Congress and President to expand our tax-payer funded resources for advance space exploration.



     
  18. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    natural, non-intelligent design.... natural, non-intelligent design....
    In order to understand this, I had to take out non-intelligent. So what is natural design?
    First, I think, one has to ask the question what is design, then ask the question, can design occur naturally?
    What are your thoughts?

    Neurons don't create thoughts.
    Think of neurons as a conveyor belt. It passes information from one point to another.



    The neurons are components of the complex "machine" - the brain.
    If you remove the neurons from the brain, you have removed a central function, and drastically interfered with the design.
    Patterns are created or followed, but they are not the design, even though they can be part of it.

    For example, a sewing machine can be used to create patterns. You can also use patterns to guide the operation, but the design functions independently, because it was designed specifically to reach a particular goal.

    Why do you think the doctor is right, and why do you believe this...

    Why do we die? Why is death a natural or normal occurrence?
    I believe what the Bible says about these things, because to me they fit the arteries and veins of truth running through the Bible. That's me. I don't expect it to be you.
    So why we are on this again when we have been through it numerous times, beats me.
    Can you give me an explanation for that?
     
  19. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Please read the OP. I never said patterns.
     
  20. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    The quest to find ET? :)
     
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