does god exist

[9-10ths_Penguin]

G-d wants us to question. If we all must serve him, because there is undeniable proof of his existence, then that would end intellectual curiosity and destroy the ability to question.

How so? Do you see that as the only question worth asking?

I think if you look through history, you can see quite a bit of intellectual curiosity and ability to question even on the part of people who were completely convinced of the existence of God.

 

[Worshipper]

If I had proof that God is as the majority of Christians I've known believe He is, I would still refuse to worship Him.

That seems kind of strange to me. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean by the word worship.

You're saying that if you knew that someone was out there who loved you and had your best interests at heart and had all knowledge and all wisdom, you wouldn't ask him for advice (i.e. pray to him or read his writings)? You take his advice when offered (i.e. obey his word)?

For me to believe that, I have to believe that you're dead-set against asking people for advice at all, even if you know them to be decent people who know better than you about a given topic. That you never ask a doctor to diagnose illness and prescribe treatment. That you never ask a teacher to instruct and assign educational tasks. That you never go to a mechanic to identify automotive problems and help you learn how to fix them and even, perhaps, prevent their recurrence.

Maybe you are such a person. But if you are, I think your brand of self-reliance, though commendable, would be pretty rare. I think most people are inclined to go to more knowledgeable people for advice and are inclined to follow that advice when it's given. And they're all the more inclined to do so if they know the adviser cares about them individually.

Maybe you meant something else by worship, but I think Christian worship of the Christian god essentially consists in learning and taking the advice of an all-knowing, all-loving adviser.

So if you are like most people and would automatically learn and follow the advice of someone you knew to be all-knowing and all-loving, then you would worship the Christian god the way Christians worship him if it were proven to you that he exists in exactly the way Christians view him.

 

[Storm]

That seems kind of strange to me. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean by the word worship.

You're saying that if you knew that someone was out there who loved you and had your best interests at heart and had all knowledge and all wisdom,

That's the sugar-coated version. If that were all there were to it, yes I probably would. But I'm talking about the petty, vindictive God Who damns people to Hell for being gay, for instance.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

That's the sugar-coated version. If that were all there were to it, yes I probably would. But I'm talking about the petty, vindictive God Who damns people to Hell for being gay, for instance.

I've got problems with that as well, but I have more of a fundamental issue with the God who would forgive all the sins of humanity... but only on the condition that His Son is brutally murdered and sent to Hell.

And that's ignoring the more abhorrent acts of God described in the Old Testament, because otherwise, we'd be here all day.

 

[Magic Man]

...we'd be here all day.

Well, I'll be here all day anyway.

 

[Storm]

I've got problems with that as well, but I have more of a fundamental issue with the God who would forgive all the sins of humanity... but only on the condition that His Son is brutally murdered and sent to Hell.

And that's ignoring the more abhorrent acts of God described in the Old Testament, because otherwise, we'd be here all day.

Yes, all of that, too. I was nutshelling.

 

[Worshipper]

That's the sugar-coated version. If that were all there were to it, yes I probably would. But I'm talking about the petty, vindictive God Who damns people to Hell for being gay, for instance.

Well, I guess you did say "the majority of Christians I've known".

But hey, now you know one more Christian who sees God exactly the way I've described him.

At least now it should be clear why I was confused by what you said.

 

[emiliano]

why do you believe/ not believe that god exists? where is the evidence to back up your belief.
p.s. sorry if there is another thread on this. im new on this forum.

God reveals Himself to all of humanity by the things created, humans are the only creatures able to work this out by virtue of been rational, so the only creatures that can claim ignorance are irrational creature, human are without excuses. But it seems that unless God gives a human the capacity to believe and hope for thing not seem, that is to say give them the gift of faith it is impossible for some to believe, I am partial to the doctrine that we are reprobates till God in His mercy gives us the gift of faith, there are no responses so far in this thread that say that people believe in God by any other means but by faith. In Christianity we have:
Luk 22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has desired you, that he may sift you as wheat.
Luk 22:32 But I have prayed for you, that your faith fail not. And when you are converted, strengthen your brothers.
Act 26:18 in order to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light, and from the authority of Satan to God, so that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.
Rom 1:17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith, as it is written, "The just shall live by faith."
Rom 5:2 Through Him we also have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice on the hope of the glory of God
1Co 12:8 For through the Spirit is given to one a word of wisdom; and to another a word of knowledge, according to the same Spirit;
1Co 12:9 and to another faith by the same Spirit; and to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
This is just about all I needed to believe that God exist.

 

[rojse]

God reveals Himself to all of humanity by the things created, humans are the only creatures able to work this out by virtue of been rational, so the only creatures that can claim ignorance are irrational creature, human are without excuses. But it seems that unless God gives a human the capacity to believe and hope for thing not seem, that is to say give them the gift of faith it is impossible for some to believe, I am partial to the doctrine that we are reprobates till God in His mercy gives us the gift of faith, there are no responses so far in this thread that say that people believe in God by any other means but by faith. In Christianity we have:
Luk 22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has desired you, that he may sift you as wheat.
Luk 22:32 But I have prayed for you, that your faith fail not. And when you are converted, strengthen your brothers.
Act 26:18 in order to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light, and from the authority of Satan to God, so that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.
Rom 1:17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith, as it is written, "The just shall live by faith."
Rom 5:2 Through Him we also have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice on the hope of the glory of God
1Co 12:8 For through the Spirit is given to one a word of wisdom; and to another a word of knowledge, according to the same Spirit;
1Co 12:9 and to another faith by the same Spirit; and to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
This is just about all I needed to believe that God exist.

Does anyone actually read these barrage of bible quotes when they are rammed at everyone with little provocation?

And making them in a larger case only makes people ignore them more.

 

[Magic Man]

Does anyone actually read these barrage of bible quotes when they are rammed at everyone with little provocation?

And making them in a larger case only makes people ignore them more.

I was going to respond, but you said everything I wanted to. Thanks.

 

[Storm]

Does anyone actually read these barrage of bible quotes when they are rammed at everyone with little provocation?

And making them in a larger case only makes people ignore them more.

I know I don't.

 

[rojse]

I know I don't.

You don't ignore them or you don't read them?

 

[Halcyon]

Does anyone actually read these barrage of bible quotes when they are rammed at everyone with little provocation?

And making them in a larger case only makes people ignore them more.

I have to admit, unless I'm deeply involved in the debate, I do tend to skip them, which is a shame because I imagine I sometimes miss out on the personal comments intermingled with the cherry-picked scripture.

 

[darkendless]

I have to admit, unless I'm deeply involved in the debate, I do tend to skip them, which is a shame because I imagine I sometimes miss out on the personal comments intermingled with the cherry-picked scripture.

I find they break down a debate very quickly outside of scripture debates.

Scripture never adds weight to an arguement i find, i've never understood its purpose, especially since some members who are highly knowledgable use it

 

[Storm]

You don't ignore them or you don't read them?

I don't read them.

 

[rojse]

I find they break down a debate very quickly outside of scripture debates.

Scripture never adds weight to an arguement i find, i've never understood its purpose, especially since some members who are highly knowledgable use it

If someone uses one or two lines, that's fine. But throwing entire paragraphs at me is not fair - give me the chapter and verse numbers that you are interested in, and a quick summation. If I want to have a look at it, I will.

 

[zenzero]

melanieee,

my dear friend. how do you know that it is just a concept. where is your evidence to back up this statement.

This is to understand that the word *GOD* is being written in English which means a language developed by humans.
Similarly humans have developed the concept of some God existing and doing everything.
{There is no such evidence of anyone doing anything up or down there]
Love & rgds

 

[Ben Masada]

If God does not exist, nothing else does.
Since evidences point to the existence of things,
God does exist.

Ben

 

[Caladan]

If God does not exist, nothing else does.
Since evidences point to the existence of things,
God does exist.

Is that some sort of koan? :areyoucra

 

[emiliano]

I attempted to answer the OP, not to debate those that don’t believe in the existence of God, I gather that maneleeeee is a fellow Christian now, but that was an atheist that converted so when he asked “where is the evidence to back up your belief” mine can only come from the Bible our sacred Book, I copy and pasted from a source on different font and it came out bigger than the first section of the post, I meant nothing by it as don’t think that atheist can be turn by anything other than God’s Mercy and Grace, those that are not of my faith can quote from their sacred books to back their beliefs up I may read them and express an opinion, this is what I thought the OP intention was.