does god exist

[camanintx]

why do you believe/ not believe that god exists? where is the evidence to back up your belief.
p.s. sorry if there is another thread on this. im new on this forum.

The universe has either existed eternally or it came into existence at a point in the past. If it has existed eternally, then there is no need for something to have created it.

If it came into existence, then it was either caused or uncaused. If it was uncaused, then again, there is no need for something to have created it.

If the universe was caused, then we have to ask the same questions about that cause setting up an infinite regression which gets us nowhere.

 

[Ben Masada]

Is that some sort of koan? :areyoucra

What the hell is koan?

 

[Storm]

Koan.

 

[Caladan]

What the hell is koan?

A koan is a story, dialogue, question, or statement in the history and lore of Zen Buddhism generally containing aspects that are inaccessible to rational understanding, yet may be accessible to intuition. A famous kōan is: "Two hands clap and there is a sound; what is the sound of one hand?" (wiki)

 

[Caladan]

ah, thank you storm.

 

[methylatedghosts]

why do you believe/ not believe that god exists? where is the evidence to back up your belief.
p.s. sorry if there is another thread on this. im new on this forum.

Does it exist?

In my mind, absolutely it exists

 

[emiliano]

The universe has either existed eternally or it came into existence at a point in the past. If it has existed eternally, then there is no need for something to have created it.

If it came into existence, then it was either caused or uncaused. If it was uncaused, then again, there is no need for something to have created it.

If the universe was caused, then we have to ask the same questions about that cause setting up an infinite regression which gets us nowhere.

By simple observations we deduce that everything that we see around (exist) has a cause and we know that at the beginning (whatever it place in time is) there must be an uncaused cause, the believer put God at that beginning to solve the problem of an infinite regression, but this does not means that this is the reasons why they believe and worship Him, we Christians believe in God existence by several and varied ways, the principal one is faith and that needs no proofs, we also have several solution and of noticed is God exist outside of time, in the end we realised that He exist. That He is supremely good, that He cares for us. That we can have communications with Him, this a personal and individualised experience that cannot be passed on to others, anyway I must tell you that not all believers come to believe because they need a beginning, it is not a must, what is a must is faith and we believe that this is a gift from God.

 

[Sententia]

why do you believe/ not believe that god exists? where is the evidence to back up your belief.
p.s. sorry if there is another thread on this. im new on this forum.

There is no evidence for or against the general concept of gods, unicorns, fairies or bhaal. However people believe in many things for many different reasons.

Before you fly off the handle and say there is no god... that is only most likely... there is the remote chance that there is a god.

 

[camanintx]

By simple observations we deduce that everything that we see around (exist) has a cause and we know that at the beginning (whatever it place in time is) there must be an uncaused cause

If one accepts that space and time are interrelated and were created at the same time, then why can't the universe be it's own uncaused cause?

 

[Storm]

If the universe was caused, then we have to ask the same questions about that cause setting up an infinite regression which gets us nowhere.

That really only works to rebut the more specific argument that the universe must have been caused due to its complexity.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

That really only works to rebut the more specific argument that the universe must have been caused due to its complexity.

I think it's also relevant when the specific argument claims that God exists "outside of time" and therefore does not need causation, but the universe cannot exist uncaused.

 

[opuntia]

Does God Exist? Many have sought the answer to that question over the centuries. It is apparent that not many countries are Christian and those that are are either Catholic, Greek Orthodox or Protestant. So who among these sects is capable of answering that question? It would seem by now that one of these three should have the answer since they have had centuries to resolve that question to everyone's satisfaction.

If no one is confident of the answers these sects are giving, then it is an individual responsibility to find the answer directly from God. Does this seem too daunting a task? If so, it may help to read these comforting words:

"Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need." (Hebrews 4:16; KJV).

We are not fear God who is full of mercy and being our Heavenly Father He will treat us as His children. What did Jesus say?

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

"For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

"Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?

"Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?

"If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?" (Matthew 7:7-11).

How much more is the joy for someone who wants to know if God exist than to receive a definite answer given in love? "God is love." (1 John 4:8, 16).

 

[camanintx]

That really only works to rebut the more specific argument that the universe must have been caused due to its complexity.

Are you talking about the argument that the cause must be more complex than the effect? I would readily agree with you here but even if you argue that the cause can be less complex than the effect, you can still only approach an uncaused cause asymptotically unless you first define when a cause is simple enough to be considered uncaused.

 

[Storm]

Are you talking about the argument that the cause must be more complex than the effect? I would readily agree with you here but even if you argue that the cause can be less complex than the effect, you can still only approach an uncaused cause asymptotically unless you first define when a cause is simple enough to be considered uncaused.

Never even heard that one, so no.

I'm talking about the one that says the universe is just too complex (or sometimes, beautiful) to have "just happened" and therefore must have a cause (God).

 

[camanintx]

Never even heard that one, so no.

I'm talking about the one that says the universe is just too complex (or sometimes, beautiful) to have "just happened" and therefore must have a cause (God).

But something complex enough to cause the universe to exist doesn't need a cause? Why stop there?

 

[Storm]

But something complex enough to cause the universe to exist doesn't need a cause? Why stop there?

Exactly. When that argument is used, your argument of infinite regression applies. I'm just saying that it only really works in that context. It doesn't work as an argument against God in general, imo.

 

[autonomous1one1]

why do you believe/ not believe that god exists? where is the evidence to back up your belief.
p.s. sorry if there is another thread on this. im new on this forum.

Greetings Melanieeeee. Let me add a welcome to your arrival here at Religious Forums. Hope you enjoy it here as much as I have.

Now that the discussions on the Bible, faith, and rational 'proofs' of God have slowed, permit me to offer a different basis for concluding God is - evidence one can find that there is God comes from one's own personal experience and is found within. There is one particularly significant experience for evidence and once experienced can be proof for one's own self. That experience might be expressed as awakening and has been repeated and documented many times throughout history. It is more readily available to us today than ever before.

Here are ten points posted in other threads about this experience:
Quote:
Originally Posted by autonomous1one1
....
1)there is an experience that some interpret as an 'awakening'
2)there are many examples documented and described throughout history
3)there is some consistency of characteristics among the 'awakened' persons
4)these characteristics result from the being that has believed and interpreted the experience and been transformed by it
5)if the experience is actually real as believed, the 'awakening' is of immense importance (e.g.'s, realization of eternal life, loss of fear, knowing a higher reality, etc.)
6)the experience is evidence in favor of God
7) Even one example of awakening that proved to be true would be significant.
8) Case studies of potentially awakened beings can be conducted to 'learn from others' and help collect evidence for our own experiment. (Literature research is essential in scientific investigation. )
9) One should verify and validate the findings of others through one's own study and experimentation.
10)The founders of religion each have pointed us in the same direction to begin our experiment. (See post #42 in thread Pitch your religion!) Yes, we must use ourselves in the experiment to 'know' for sure.:angel2:


Many of my posts address this subject and as you guessed there are many threads on evidence for God. Here are a few threads where the experience referred to is covered. A couple of the threads have many posts on this experience; two are linked in Evidence and in ...God Exists.
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/general-religious-debates/60442-evidence-10.html#post1027682
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/general-religious-debates/59207-evidence-8.html
http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...y-do-you-believe-god-exists-7.html#post699997
http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...y-do-you-believe-god-exists-8.html#post701105
http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...s/60418-what-your-significant-insights-2.html


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[logician]

If there is a god, and it wanted us to know it existed, there would universally be no doubt it existed. If there is no god, or if it doesn't care if we know it exists, then it really isn't much of a "personal" god, in that it couldn't care that much about universal salvation. Essentially, personal gods do not exist in practicality. Other pantheistic gods are more philosophies than beings IMHO.

 

[Ben Masada]

If there is a god, and it wanted us to know it existed, there would universally be no doubt it existed. If there is no god, or if it doesn't care if we know it exists, then it really isn't much of a "personal" god, in that it couldn't care that much about universal salvation. Essentially, personal gods do not exist in practicality. Other pantheistic gods are more philosophies than beings IMHO.

I go middle term with you reasoning. I believe there is God, but a personal relation
with Him is one-way street. We can indeed have a personal relationship with God,
but we can't expect Him to feedback. Why? Because after He granted us with freewill,
we were left to fend for ourselves. My private way to relate to God is through Philosophy.


Ben :rainbow1:

 

[kai]

well the only one who could solve this conundrum has decided not to enter the debate so until he/she/it does its all speculation,