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Do Muslim women believe that Islam protects women's rights more than other religions?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by danieldemol, May 26, 2017.

  1. YmirGF

    YmirGF Bodhisattva

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    Same for me. It wasn't the anti-Muslim sites/people who convinced me that Islam is a theological house of cards, it was authentic Muslim sites and real Muslims who convinced me that it was.
     
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  2. YmirGF

    YmirGF Bodhisattva

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    I've watched @LuisDantas evolve his opinions about Islamic dogma over a period of years. He was quite an apologist in the beginning. Then as he learned more he began to understand clearly what is at stake. Also, I'm not so sure Luis dislikes Islam, per se, but it seems more of a case of being concerned about Islamic doctrine and being fearless about calling a shovel, a shovel.
     
    #42 YmirGF, Jul 31, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2017
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  3. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Well-Known Member

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    Before patient, the Muslim women must get permission from their husbands or fathers before they can post. Of course I wouldn't wait too long... ;)
     
  4. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    Being a hard-line critic does not mean you have the intellectual capacity to understand the intricacies of religion to give an honest critique. Reading the entire Qur'an does not make one a scholar either. You have Arabic words and various meanings. Understanding the order to which the Qur'an was revealed and in what periods of time it relates to specific verses. Watching CNN or news outlets does not mean this represents Islam or that represents Islam.
     
  5. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    Yet you just said (post #27 in this thread) that you could do that were you a believer. Maybe you reconsidered since then?

    Now it is you who are being unfair towards me.

    You can hardly blame me for the self-inflicted flaws of Islaam.
     
  6. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    Definitely. No, it does not.

    It does not mean that I do not have it, either. Much as many a Muslim and quite a few fellow kuffar dearly wish to believe otherwise.


    True enough. Immaterial to the matter at hand, far as I can see, too.
     
  7. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    Oh, I dislike Islaam, make no mistake.

    That does not mean that I reject Muslims or even that I am entitled to, of course.
     
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  8. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    Don't ask me, perhaps you may want to ask the Muslims on this site or perhaps you may want to discuss with them your concerns with their faith I don't understand why is that so hard for you guys. You see one guy who doesn't jump on the "let's bash Islam train" then you guys want to ask me to defend Islam. I'm not Muslim and I cannot defend a faith/community to which I don't belong. Could I defend Islam? Yes but this isn't about Islam the thread highlights something specific so again any concerns regarding this faith and its adherents I leave that up to the Muslims here.
     
  9. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    Reading you feels a lot like reading myself five years ago or so.

    So did I. Then I learned.
     
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  10. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    Everyone needs to heed this post
     
  11. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    Not sure about Islam he is concerned about. I have more direct concern for Christians than I do Muslims.
     
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  12. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    The question was asked if I was Muslim could I defend it, I said yes......I am not Muslim therefore I don't find it necessary to defend it because I have not encapsulated myself in its teachings. Could I defend Islamic philosophy as I've studied in college as it relates to certain Qur'anic teachings? Yes. But talking about the treatment of women as it relates to the Qur'an requires a discussion of Islamic Fiqh as well as Shari'ah which is a long drawn pout discussion. I'm sure you guys couldn't even discuss the various schools of thought and their ideas/rulings on specific actions in the community. That is why I leave that up to a more knowledgeable Muslim who may subscribe to a school of thought, and one who can discuss these matters. Perhaps with your concerns you need to speak with an Alim (Muslim scholar) as opposed to members on a discussion board. Often times there are Muslims by culture as opposed to religion who, may not adequately answer your question. It is easy to discuss Islam with Muslims who may just know enough of their religion while you cite various biased sources but the task would be a lot difficult if you discussed your concerns about Islam with an Alim.
     
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  13. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    Well all religions are questionable and the adherents of those faiths are even more questionable it does not mean I shy away from learning nor do I display concern. Again, I have more concern of so-called Christians than I do Muslims. Maybe if I lived in a predominant Muslim society my attitude may or may not change but I don't.
     
  14. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    One of the things I learned in the last couple of years is that, superficial appearances and prejudices aside, Islaam is not a religion. Not as I understand the word, anyway.

    Admittedly, it is a terribly difficult word to define, and there is nothing resembling a consensus on the matter. Quite on the contrary.

    But far as my personal criteria go, it is all-out misleading to call that doctrine a religion.

    As an aside, it is even more misleading IMO to blame Muslims for what are ultimately the flaws of Islaam (as defined by the Qur'an) itself.


    I am sorry, but I can't help but see a measure of contradiction there.

    How can you possibly be certain that you could defend Islaam while also claiming ignorance of what your arguments would be?

    I can see hoping that you would have some arguments, some knowledge that could be used to present a case. But hoping is not knowing.


    Sure, it is always possible that such arguments may be presented.

    It is also increasingly clear that in order to do so they will have to ignore or deny the Qur'an to some extent.

    Which is certainly a good thing. But that can't really be done without denying the validity of Islaam, now can it?
     
  15. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    As it was asked of me was if I were Muslim iif I were able to defend Islam, I said yes. I don't understand where you got the impression that I would be willing to defend Islam. You then said in a later post insinuating that I should anyway and although and play devil's advocate and could defend it, that would detract from the core subject matter of the thread. I concede that I do not know everything on a scholarly level about Islam, which is why it would be inappropriate of me to attempt to defend it. I think we've gone on the deep end in this thread and have detracted away from the subject so I suggest if you want to debate this on a non-Muslim level to start your own thread.
     
  16. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    That you did.

    The impression that I have is that you assume that you have not learned of somewhat valid, existing arguments for Islaam, while I strongly suspect that they do not actually exist.


    I insinuated nothing. I stated that there is contradiction in your stance. You can't logically both claim ability to argue for Islaam and ignorance of any arguments to use for that end.

    I beg to differ. The inherent contradictions of Islaam are inseparable from its recurrent failures.
     
    #56 LuisDantas, Jul 31, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2017
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  17. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

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    Not muslim, but I would say yes, at least more than some other religions.

    The reason I say this is because many other religions existed prior to islam and yet we recognize that for the time period, islam gave many rights to women whoch they were denied in other religions. Therefore it stands to reason that Islam protects womens rights more than some other religions.
     
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  18. Notanumber

    Notanumber A Free Man

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    Have you read post #4?

    We should be concerned about the present, not the past.

    EDIT: Shafilea Ahmed murder: 'she told me what happened to her sister'
     
    #58 Notanumber, Aug 1, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2017
  19. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

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    I agree that the question used the word "protects" which speaks directly to the present. I am offering the past as evidence of the present. I am not speaking of the past willy-nilly here. Is it true that under other religious regimes womens rights were less than they were with islam? If so, then it stands to reason that those religions protect (present tense) womens rights less than islam. Just because people of a faith act differently or believe differently now does not mean that the religion itself protects any more or any less than it did when people believed as they did in the past when women were not protected (past tense).
     
  20. Notanumber

    Notanumber A Free Man

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    I have edited my previous post to include another link as an example for what is happening today.

    Fifty years ago we in the UK were arresting gays for being in love, but thankfully we are now more enlightened.
     
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