Did Floyd Die Because He Was Black?

[Nakosis]

And if you were black that still wouldn't be enough, he was killed because he was black, not because he was intoxicated

Since a person can't do much to change the color of their skin, folks have to look toward other solutions to protect their life. Or would you rather Black folks accept their likely death because of their skin.

 

[Revoltingest]

Reminds me of some discussions with feminists here years ago.....
Don't warn your daughter against accepting drinks from strangers,
walking alone at night in bad areas, being prepared to defend herself.
That's blaming the victim.

 

[Revoltingest]

No excuse! Your three reasons of victim blame do not matter. What happened is inexcusable, the cops are not the judge, jury, and executioner, and Floyd died because we have crap standards for police, crap training for police, and a sadistic mentality of being hard on crime, prinoting law and order, and worshiping those who kill us all (white, black, yellow, red, brown, or blue, we are equally cattle for the slaughter before their eyes) with impunity.

He never blamed Floyd.
It's useful to know exacerbating factors in his death.
Do you think Chris Rock is an apologist for violent cops?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

But they increase the probability of bad results when dealing with cops.

Wrongo pongo.
Cops kill more white than black folk.
The latter are merely a higher percentage.
Check the OP's videos....
Some Wrongful Cop Behavior That Doesn't Spark Riots

I'm concerned that so many people believe that it makes no
difference how one conducts oneself around cops. And that
black folk are in continuous imminent danger, & that white folk
are safe. All are in some danger.

This PSA is useful.
Caution: Some profanity & simulated violence.

Gotta be honest -- didn't much care for that Chris Rock vignette.

 

[Revoltingest]

Gotta be honest -- didn't much care for that Chris Rock vignette.

I find it both hilarious & informative.
The strange part is that it's actually needed by many.

 

[Nakosis]

No excuse! Your three reasons of victim blame do not matter. What happened is inexcusable, the cops are not the judge, jury, and executioner, and Floyd died because we have crap standards for police, crap training for police, and a sadistic mentality of being hard on crime, prinoting law and order, and worshiping those who kill us all (white, black, yellow, red, brown, or blue, we are equally cattle for the slaughter before their eyes) with impunity.

I'm not trying to excuse the cop. I'm asking the question, if Floyd had made different choices that day, would he still be alive now.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm not trying to excuse the cop. I'm asking the question, if Floyd had made different choices that day, would he still be alive now.

This is an extremely difficult concept to get across.

 

[Nakosis]

Yes, there were risk factors, and some of them were within Floyd's control. That being said, it must still appear, at least by the numbers, that the biggest risk factor is the one that he could not control -- the colour of his skin.

Since 2017, 1,268 white people, 698 black people and 498 Hispanic people have been killed by police in the US. The numbers tell us this: black men are more than twice as likely to be shot and killed by police than whites on a per capita basis. Native Americans and Hispanics are also substantially more likely. Women, hardly at all.

Now, some other interesting comparisons by country (these number are per 100 people 2016-17 data):

United States --- Estimated guns per 100 people 120.5 Fatal shootings by police 996
Canada --- Guns 34.7 fatal shootings 36
Finland --- Guns 32.4 fatal shootings 3
Iceland --- Guns 31.7 fatal shootings 0
Switzerland --- Guns 27.6 fatal shootings 0
Sweden --- Guns 23.1 fatal shootings 6
France --- Guns 19.6 fatal shootings 26

Source of above

Ok, fair enough, but again, skin color is not something one can do much about.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

if Floyd had made different choices that day, would he still be alive now.

Almost certainly yes. I don't understand how it's even debatable.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Ok, however the question, that I'm putting forth, is whether Floyd could have prevented his own death if he had made better choices.

Personally, I'd rather not leave my survival in the hands of others.

Of course he could have with different choices. Going the hyperbolic route, had he decided just not to leave his bed that day, all day, he would never have encountered those police officers. Not breaking the law in the first place is an obvious one as well.

However, it can still be said that no matter what the circumstances surrounding, the cop's reaction to the current framing of the situation was plain wrong.

 

[fantome profane]

I'm not trying to excuse the cop. I'm asking the question, if Floyd had made different choices that day, would he still be alive now.

It is an incredible stupid question. If he had walked down a different street. If he chose a different store. If he stayed home that day, If he moved to Florida five years ago he might not have been brutally murderer by that cop. But he was.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

It is an incredible stupid question. If he had walked down a different street. If he chose a different store. If he stayed home that day, If he moved to Florida five years ago he might not have been brutally murderer by that cop. But he was.

No, it's not a stupid question. I think reducing one's risk of becoming a victim of any crime is a wise decision. To reference @Revoltingest 's earlier post, is it stupid for women to learn self defense and avoid accepting drinks from strangers? I know this is a sensitive issue, but it really shouldn't be that controversial. It's not victim blaming to say that there are factors within one's control that change the probability of being a victim.

 

[Curious George]

Or did he die because of bad choices he made?

There were, IMO, at least 3 bad choices made by George Floyd that day, any one of which if he had made better choices, he'd be alive today.

First bad choice - he chose to be intoxicated. Which impaired his thinking.

Second - He chose to pass fake bills, also chose to not return the cigarette when confronted by the store employees.

Third - He chose to resist the police when they tried to place him in the vehicle.


He was Black. Something he really had no choice over. Nothing he could have done different about that.
Dick-head cop was a racist. Ok, but Floyd had no choice over which cops were going to show up.
Floyd said he was claustrophobic, perhaps but I doubt the police would accept that as an excuse to not arrest him. If he had complied and gotten in the cruiser when ask, he would have been long gone before dick-head cop showed up on the scene.

Not saying the cop is not accountable but we have no control over what other people do. What we do have control over is our own action, our own choices. We have to make wise choices and cannot depend on others to make the wise choices for our own safety.

Interesting thoughts...if that kid didn't agree to help the man in the van find his puppy, would they still be alive today?

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

I think both you and @Nakosis are correct. Of course the officer is a horrible person, what he did was absolutely horrendous and he should be prosecuted for murder (frankly I wish the officer could be executed). However, I think Floyd could have prevented his own death. I don't see what's wrong with pointing that out. I've never been arrested before but if I ever get arrested, you can be damn sure I'm not going to try to resist the officers, because I don't want to risk my own life. It's not victim blaming to point this out. The same thing can be said about victims of any other crime. There are things people can do to reduce their chances of becoming a victim of almost any crime. I don't understand what's wrong with pointing that out.

I get where you are coming from, and that is true. The only time I have ever been approached by police is once when I was pulled over because he was warning me my headlight had just gone out, and once when I ran a stop-sign I completely missed. I watch my p's and q's and acquiesce to any requests coming from the authority, and don't find it all that difficult to do. Granted, my skin is "white" and I do understand that this gives me some kind of advantage due to the lack of latent stereotyping that this seems to afford. But yes - his death could have been avoided by better choices on his part. Just the same as his death could have been avoided by better choices on the officer's part.

 

[bobhikes]

more whites die each year than any other group
at the hands of the police

For passing counterfeit 20.00's?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'm not trying to excuse the cop. I'm asking the question, if Floyd had made different choices that day, would he still be alive now.

Could he have chosen differently?

 

[Revoltingest]

Since a person can't do much to change the color of their skin, folks have to look toward other solutions to protect their life. Or would you rather Black folks accept their likely death because of their skin.

I never answered the titular question....
It's possible that the cop killed him for that reason.

 

[Revoltingest]

In the news...
George Floyd death cop Derek Chauvin ‘moved to one of the most secure prison after reports he was on "suicide watch"'

 

[bobhikes]

But they increase the probability of bad results when dealing with cops.

Wrongo pongo.
Cops kill more white than black folk.
The latter are merely a higher percentage.
Check the OP's videos....
Some Wrongful Cop Behavior That Doesn't Spark Riots

I'm concerned that so many people believe that it makes no
difference how one conducts oneself around cops. And that
black folk are in continuous imminent danger, & that white folk
are safe. All are in some danger.

A few things, one the crime was a misdemeanor get me the facts on Unarmed Misdemeanor deaths. Who is killed more often.
Second there were 4 cops in total indifferent to a Human's pleading cries, how many respected humans are treated this way.
Lastly 2 wrongs don't make a right, We all need to join the protests so that we all can avoid needless deaths.

 

[Revoltingest]

And to make the race issue more complicated, here are the cops who killed Freddie Gray....

A rainbow coalition of killers, eh?