Did Floyd Die Because He Was Black?

[Revoltingest]

Here's the thing -- everybody's got lots of takes on this, but just look at the reality. The U.S. is killing its own citizens with its own police a rate ferociously higher than that of any nation of comparable wealth and democratic insitutions institutions.

And don't forget imprisoning them.
We have a wee bit of justice system problem here.
But it's still better than I hear from connections in China & Iran.

 

[Nakosis]

You can also be old, white, respectable looking (for a Scot), & still get hassled while doing nothing illegal. It happens to me seldom, but it happens. But sometimes they're helpful.
Cops are like Forest Gump's box of chocolates.

Yeah last cops I encountered were the ones that came by to harass my son during probation. One was really really nice, one was a ********. I would not want to be alone with the ********. That guy scared me. This cop was a big white guy, shaven head that made my son look like a dwarf. He kept looking for reasons to haul my son off to jail. Fortunately, his partner was able to calm him down.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yeah last cops I encountered were the ones that came by to harass my son during probation. One was really really nice, one was a ********. I would not want to be alone with the ********. That guy scared me. This cop was a big white guy, shaven head that made my son look like a dwarf. He kept looking for reasons to haul my son off to jail. Fortunately, his partner was able to calm him down.

Criminy, it's a police state for some.
At least he didn't get sexually assaulted, as was a friend's son (also white).

 

[Nakosis]

Here's the thing -- everybody's got lots of takes on this, but just look at the reality. The U.S. is killing its own citizens with its own police a rate ferociously higher than that of any nation of comparable wealth and democratic insitutions.

That says to me, "something is wrong here." Something that needs to be fixed. So why not start talking about the fix, instead of how some people should just keep their heads down and pretend that there isn't a problem. There is.

And what is your solution?

Are you going to end racism? Are you going to turn every cop into a puppy dog?

No one here is pretending there isn't a problem. However, if you're going to wait on other people to fix it, good luck with that.

Sure, I'll sit here and pray that God changes the heart of every cop that's out there but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Curious George]

Parents really, really ought to be teaching kids not to trust strangers.

Hmm, that seems a little antisocial. But i don't disagree. Do you also believe parents should really be teaching kids not to trust police?

 

[Nakosis]

Criminy, it's a police state for some.
At least he didn't get sexually assaulted, as was a friend's son (also white).

Sorry, that happened.

I think I'd rather be shot than sexually assaulted by a cop.

There is a problem with the police that goes beyond racism. I don't know if there is a fix because when you give people authority over others there are going to be those that abuse it.

My view, hope for the best but prepare for the worst. I mean if you want to survive.

 

[Nakosis]

Hmm, that seems a little antisocial. But i don't disagree. Do you also believe parents should really be teaching kids not to trust police?

Well, what I teach them is to comply. They are people, you don't know them. You really have no reason to trust someone just because they are a cop. However, they have a gun and can shoot you. They have a baton and can beat you. They can tazz you, sick their dog on you. Do your best to not give them any reason to.

Unfortunately, my son had to learn that lesson the hard way.

 

[Revoltingest]

Sorry, that happened.

I think I'd rather be shot than sexually assaulted by a cop.

There is a problem with the police that goes beyond racism. I don't know if there is a fix because when you give people authority over others there are going to be those that abuse it.

My view, hope for the best but prepare for the worst. I mean if you want to survive.

I suspect that it's not just cultural, ie, buying into the cop attitude,
& losing empathy for others, but that the profession attracts bullies.

 

[Nakosis]

A few things, one the crime was a misdemeanor get me the facts on Unarmed Misdemeanor deaths. Who is killed more often.
Second there were 4 cops in total indifferent to a Human's pleading cries, how many respected humans are treated this way.
Lastly 2 wrongs don't make a right, We all need to join the protests so that we all can avoid needless deaths.

They have been protests before. This death wasn't avoided.

Do you think your protests are going to make every racist cop disappear?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

And what is your solution?

Are you going to end racism? Are you going to turn every cop into a puppy dog?

No one here is pretending there isn't a problem. However, if you're going to wait on other people to fix it, good luck with that.

Sure, I'll sit here and pray that God changes the heart of every cop that's out there but I'm not holding my breath.

As a non-American, there's not a lot I can do. I care, however, because I am a neighbour, I care deeply.

But protesting is something that everyone can do. When you see injustice, CALL IT OUT, publicly. If police are getting away with crap, CALL IT OUT, loudly and publicly, and begin insisting that it change. Teach your children, and when they come home and tell you about racism in schools, CALL IT OUT. Tell the kids how wrong it is, and then go -- with them -- to the school and make sure the school hear's it, too.

None of this is going to change anything all at once -- this kind of societal change takes a huge amount of effort and will, from many, many people. If only those who are directly affected protest, the whole thing will soon be forgotten, and the systemic problem will continue. When ordinary, main-stream, everyday decent Americans say, "that's enough, I must stand out and CALL IT OUT," then things will slowly start to change.

 

[fantome profane]

First bad choice - he chose to be intoxicated. Which impaired his thinking.

Second - He chose to pass fake bills, also chose to not return the cigarette when confronted by the store employees.

Third - He chose to resist the police when they tried to place him in the vehicle.

Let’s see if we can get some things cleared up.

First, I have seen no evidence that George Floyd was in anyway intoxicated. If you have such evidence, please share.

Second, a couple clerks made an accusation. We do not know that George Floyd passed or attempted to pass fake bills. There was no investigation done. No trial. Simply an execution.

Third, there is no evidence that George Floyd resisted arrest. And he certainly was not resisting when he was handcuffed and down on the ground.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Or did he die because of bad choices he made?

There were, IMO, at least 3 bad choices made by George Floyd that day, any one of which if he had made better choices, he'd be alive today.

First bad choice - he chose to be intoxicated. Which impaired his thinking.

Second - He chose to pass fake bills, also chose to not return the cigarette when confronted by the store employees.

Third - He chose to resist the police when they tried to place him in the vehicle.


He was Black. Something he really had no choice over. Nothing he could have done different about that.
Dick-head cop was a racist. Ok, but Floyd had no choice over which cops were going to show up.
Floyd said he was claustrophobic, perhaps but I doubt the police would accept that as an excuse to not arrest him. If he had complied and gotten in the cruiser when ask, he would have been long gone before dick-head cop showed up on the scene.

Not saying the cop is not accountable but we have no control over what other people do. What we do have control over is our own action, our own choices. We have to make wise choices and cannot depend on others to make the wise choices for our own safety.

Do you always blame the victim.
I though we were long past that faulty logic.

 

[Curious George]

Well, what I teach them is to comply. They are people, you don't know them. You really have no reason to trust someone just because they are a cop. However, they have a gun and can shoot you. They have a baton and can beat you. They can tazz you, sick their dog on you. Do your best to not give them any reason to.

Unfortunately, my son had to learn that lesson the hard way.

So you think we should teach kids to comply with strangers who are dangerous?

 

[Nakosis]

So you think we should teach kids to comply with strangers who are dangerous?

I think we have to teach our kids to comply with the police who have been given the authority by this nation to use deadly force.

 

[Nakosis]

Do you always blame the victim.
I though we were long past that faulty logic.

Actually I'm looking for solutions that will hopefully keep people alive.
I suggest you take the strawman elsewhere.

 

[Nakosis]

Let’s see if we can get some things cleared up.

First, I have seen no evidence that George Floyd was in anyway intoxicated. If you have such evidence, please share.

Second, a couple clerks made an accusation. We do not know that George Floyd passed or attempted to pass fake bills. There was no investigation done. No trial. Simply an execution.

Third, there is no evidence that George Floyd resisted arrest. And he certainly was not resisting when he was handcuffed and down on the ground.

I guess you didn't watch the video link I provided.

 

[Nakosis]

As a non-American, there's not a lot I can do. I care, however, because I am a neighbour, I care deeply.

But protesting is something that everyone can do. When you see injustice, CALL IT OUT, publicly. If police are getting away with crap, CALL IT OUT, loudly and publicly, and begin insisting that it change. Teach your children, and when they come home and tell you about racism in schools, CALL IT OUT. Tell the kids how wrong it is, and then go -- with them -- to the school and make sure the school hear's it, too.

None of this is going to change anything all at once -- this kind of societal change takes a huge amount of effort and will, from many, many people. If only those who are directly affected protest, the whole thing will soon be forgotten, and the systemic problem will continue. When ordinary, main-stream, everyday decent Americans say, "that's enough, I must stand out and CALL IT OUT," then things will slowly start to change.

Well, I hope you are right. In the mean time I think we need solutions for now. For the world as it is, not as we want it to be.

 

[Nakosis]

I suspect that it's not just cultural, ie, buying into the cop attitude,
& losing empathy for others, but that the profession attracts bullies.

Might even be encouraged. Police dept looking for ****** cops to enforce the law. A necessary evil perhaps.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Well, I hope you are right. In the mean time I think we need solutions for now. For the world as it is, not as we want it to be.

Then it might be time to take a look back to Dr. Martin Luther King -- and possibly to Mohandas K. Gandhi (from who MLK took some inspiration).

Stand up.
Be peaceful.
Say what you have to say with grace and as much power as your rhetorical skills allow.
Refuse to back down.
Refuse to be goaded into violence.

It works, you know.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I suspect that it's not just cultural, ie, buying into the cop attitude,
& losing empathy for others, but that the profession attracts bullies.

Screening for those with bullying tendencies isn't actually all that difficult. The Toronto Police Services do that when they are screening recruits -- it's done through a technique that I know very well, called "Behavioural Focused Interviewing" or BFI.