Did Floyd Die Because He Was Black?

[Revoltingest]

A few things, one the crime was a misdemeanor get me the facts on Unarmed Misdemeanor deaths. Who is killed more often.
Second there were 4 cops in total indifferent to a Human's pleading cries, how many respected humans are treated this way.
Lastly 2 wrongs don't make a right, We all need to join the protests so that we all can avoid needless deaths.

I agree.

The other day, a black friend & I were discussing Floyd's death.
He too once tried to pass counterfeit money. He'd just gotten
it from a bank, & didnt' know it was real.
Hmmm....he was here to borrow some money. Neither of us
checked the bills to see if they were genuine. Uh oh.

Btw, he & I both discuss strategies for dealing with cops.
He was in a scrape because the landlords I sold a building to
were evicting him. I offered my advice on appearing to be
the good guy in the conflict. Things went well enuf.
We must all be careful & helpful to our fellow human.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Ok, fair enough, but again, skin color is not something one can do much about.

So if you are black, you must compensate by making much better choices than white folks, and far, far fewer errors in judgment. That sounds fair, I think...

 

[Shadow Wolf]

He never blamed Floyd.
It's useful to know exacerbating factors in his death.

Saying he could have done such and such different and survived, that is blaming him. Floyd was, in no way, at fault or responsible for his death.

 

[Revoltingest]

So if you are black, you must compensate by making much better choices than white folks, and far, far fewer errors in judgment. That sounds fair, I think...

It's not fair.
But it's useful.
Note that men must make better choices than women at times.

 

[bobhikes]

Probably a lot. But choosing to be intoxicated every day is certainly an unwise choice if one wishes to minimize his/her chances of getting in harm's way.

But very few and possibly only him are going to meet that harm(death) caused by four cops with one pressing down on your neck. By the way what was his blood alcohol level how intoxicated was he. You know a cop that didn't like me charged me with intoxication because I mentioned I was drinking when tested I was .05. Below .04 you couldn't be charged in my state but I had to get a lawyer and fight of course the officer didn't show so I got off.

 

[Revoltingest]

Saying he could have done such and such different and survived, that is blaming him.

Agree to disagree.

Floyd was, in no way, at fault or responsible for his death.

Agree to agree.

 

[PureX]

There were, IMO, at least 3 bad choices made by George Floyd that day, any one of which if he had made better choices, he'd be alive today.

First bad choice - he chose to be intoxicated. Which impaired his thinking.

Second - He chose to pass fake bills, also chose to not return the cigarette when confronted by the store employees.

Third - He chose to resist the police when they tried to place him in the vehicle.

None of which by any stretch of reasoning should have led to his being killed. So he did not die because of any of these "choices".

I have been drunk, and detained by cops. I have almost certainly passed a fake $20 in my lifetime. Most of us have and never knew it. But we could have been "caught" just the same. While drunk. I sure could have. And as for 'resisting arrest'. That can mean anything. No one embraces arrest. Many demand a reason for the arrest, and the cops then take that demand as "resistance". Also, a lot of black men know that being arrested often leads to humiliation and abuse at the station. So that accepting arrest, for them, does not guarantee them not getting a beating, or worse.

 

[Watchmen]

Saying a victim of a crime would still be alive today if he made different choices is not necessarily blaming the victim. It’s an observation worth discussion. For example, I might choose to take the route home from work that goes over a levee. Or I might take the freeway. One day I choose to take the levee, a reckless driver shows up, and I end up in the river and die. Am I “blamed” because I chose the levee route that day? No. But did my choice contribute to my death? Yes.

 

[Nakosis]

None of which by any stretch of reasoning should have led to his being killed. So he did not die because of any of these "choices".

Agreed

I have been drunk, and detained by cops. I have almost certainly passed a fake $20 in my lifetime. Most of us have and never knew it. But we could have been "caught" just the same. While drunk. I sure could have. And as for 'resisting arrest'. That can mean anything. No one embraces arrest. Many demand a reason for the arrest, and the cops then take that demand as "resistance". Also, a lot of black men know that being arrested often leads to humiliation and abuse at the station. So that accepting arrest, for them, does not guarantee them not getting a beating, or worse.

So you think Floyd's death was fated? Nothing Floyd could have done that day to have prevented his death?

 

[Nakosis]

So if you are black, you must compensate by making much better choices than white folks, and far, far fewer errors in judgment. That sounds fair, I think...

Let me put it this way. If I was in China for example, since I'm not Chinese, I would be extra respectful to the Chinese authorities in any confrontation since I've no idea whether they will treat me fairly. Sure, maybe I shouldn't have to but I'm not going to take that chance.

The name of the game is to survive the encounter. I can worry about any rights violations later. Being alive, I can do that. Being dead, game over.

 

[Nakosis]

I never answered the titular question....
It's possible that the cop killed him for that reason.

Maybe, but according to many, racism is an issue Black people are going to run into. The truth is, you are not going to know when you are going to encounter a racist. Could be more often than not according to many. Seems intuitive to me to not provoke anyone, that may not be a racist but could happen to be one. My position would be to take the safe road. To not assume the world is free or will be free anytime soon of racism.

Cops often violate the right of everyday citizens. When a person has a gun, authority and backup, that is not, IMO, the time to do anything to provoke them. I'd rather live, survive the encounter and take the fight to a place of my choosing where I am not at a disadvantage.

Sure the police should treat everyone fairly/equally but obviously there is no guarantee of that.

 

[tytlyf]

I don't have much to worry about because, I wouldn't be trying to pass counterfeit notes. I wouldn't be drunk in public and I would be polite and cooperate fully with the police.

You're white too, that helps. Sometimes you'll be doing nothing wrong and BAM, you're stopped/frisked/etc.

 

[Nakosis]

Could he have chosen differently?

Probably not, being drunk. You start out putting yourself at a disadvantage. Probably didn't even realize his life was at risk until too late.
If you are going to commit a crime, even a minor crime, don't do it while drunk.

 

[Nakosis]

Interesting thoughts...if that kid didn't agree to help the man in the van find his puppy, would they still be alive today?

Parents really, really ought to be teaching kids not to trust strangers.

 

[Nakosis]

You're white too, that helps. Sometimes you'll be doing nothing wrong and BAM, you're stopped/frisked/etc.

Yes, when I was younger, long haired, long haired friends, we often got questioned by the police. My friend snickered once. Boy did that **** the cop off. He threaten to throw me to the ground, search me for drugs and haul me off to jail. I apologized for my friend and fortunately I was able to descalate the situation. Also got harrassed often as a teen when I was homeless and living out of a backpack. I guess they had a lot of people in those days transporting drugs in backpacks.

 

[Nakosis]

It is an incredible stupid question. If he had walked down a different street. If he chose a different store. If he stayed home that day, If he moved to Florida five years ago he might not have been brutally murderer by that cop. But he was.

These other actions are not directly related to an encounter with the police are they? Person with a gun and the authority to arrest you are worse. What do you do?

 

[Revoltingest]

Yes, when I was younger, long haired, long haired friends, we often got questioned by the police. My friend snickered once. Boy did that **** the cop off. He threaten to throw me to the ground, search me for drugs and haul me off to jail. I apologized for my friend and fortunately I was able to descalate the situation. Also got harrassed often as a teen when I was homeless and living out of a backpack. I guess they had a lot of people in those days transporting drugs in backpacks.

You can also be old, white, respectable looking (for a Scot), & still get hassled while doing nothing illegal. It happens to me seldom, but it happens. But sometimes they're helpful.
Cops are like Forest Gump's box of chocolates.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Let me put it this way. If I was in China for example, since I'm not Chinese, I would be extra respectful to the Chinese authorities in any confrontation since I've no idea whether they will treat me fairly. Sure, maybe I shouldn't have to but I'm not going to take that chance.

The name of the game is to survive the encounter. I can worry about any rights violations later. Being alive, I can do that. Being dead, game over.

But are we not talking about Americans -- in America?

 

[Nakosis]

Of course he could have with different choices. Going the hyperbolic route, had he decided just not to leave his bed that day, all day, he would never have encountered those police officers. Not breaking the law in the first place is an obvious one as well.

However, it can still be said that no matter what the circumstances surrounding, the cop's reaction to the current framing of the situation was plain wrong.

Of course, what the cop did was evil. No doubt about it. When you find yourself face to face with evil you have to do what it takes to survive the encounter. Bad choices and it's over.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Here's the thing -- everybody's got lots of takes on this, but just look at the reality. The U.S. is killing its own citizens with its own police a rate ferociously higher than that of any nation of comparable wealth and democratic insitutions.

That says to me, "something is wrong here." Something that needs to be fixed. So why not start talking about the fix, instead of how some people should just keep their heads down and pretend that there isn't a problem. There is.