1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Did Floyd Die Because He Was Black?

Discussion in 'North American Politics' started by Nakosis, Jun 2, 2020.

  1. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2011
    Messages:
    15,193
    Ratings:
    +6,288
    Religion:
    Atheist Libertarian
    Or did he die because of bad choices he made?



    There were, IMO, at least 3 bad choices made by George Floyd that day, any one of which if he had made better choices, he'd be alive today.

    First bad choice - he chose to be intoxicated. Which impaired his thinking.

    Second - He chose to pass fake bills, also chose to not return the cigarette when confronted by the store employees.

    Third - He chose to resist the police when they tried to place him in the vehicle.


    He was Black. Something he really had no choice over. Nothing he could have done different about that.
    Dick-head cop was a racist. Ok, but Floyd had no choice over which cops were going to show up.
    Floyd said he was claustrophobic, perhaps but I doubt the police would accept that as an excuse to not arrest him. If he had complied and gotten in the cruiser when ask, he would have been long gone before dick-head cop showed up on the scene.

    Not saying the cop is not accountable but we have no control over what other people do. What we do have control over is our own action, our own choices. We have to make wise choices and cannot depend on others to make the wise choices for our own safety.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
  2. Lyndon

    Lyndon "Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2014
    Messages:
    7,170
    Ratings:
    +3,468
    Religion:
    Theism+Jesus(pbuh) influenced by....... Taoism and Buddhism
    a lot of racist Trump supporters would like to blame the victim for getting murdered!!
     
    #2 Lyndon, Jun 2, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2020
    • Like Like x 1
  3. A Vestigial Mote

    A Vestigial Mote Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2015
    Messages:
    5,029
    Ratings:
    +3,284
    Religion:
    ?
    An unarmed perpetrator who is not actively trying to kill the officers involved should never die when being apprehended/processed. If they do, there should immediately be measures in place to launch an investigation. "Resisting" - unless it includes some form of violence that could be considered deadly - isn't enough reason to use extreme measures of force or detention that could even potentially result in the death of the criminal subject. It's case enough to use adequate force to subdue and get the person in the police vehicle, sure, but that's it. The officers involved did not have respect enough for their fellow man to lend any sense of common decency to their interactions with George Floyd. And such flagrant disregard for human life should be punished.
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
  4. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2011
    Messages:
    15,193
    Ratings:
    +6,288
    Religion:
    Atheist Libertarian
    Ok, however the question, that I'm putting forth, is whether Floyd could have prevented his own death if he had made better choices.

    Personally, I'd rather not leave my survival in the hands of others.
     
  5. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2011
    Messages:
    15,193
    Ratings:
    +6,288
    Religion:
    Atheist Libertarian
    I'd like to learn from this event to prevent other deaths.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  6. Lyndon

    Lyndon "Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2014
    Messages:
    7,170
    Ratings:
    +3,468
    Religion:
    Theism+Jesus(pbuh) influenced by....... Taoism and Buddhism
    Well you're white, aren't you, you don't have so much to worry about
     
  7. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Hihg Intellajence Kwoshunt.
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    166,397
    Ratings:
    +51,449
    Religion:
    Bokononist Atheism
    Perhaps you have less experience with cops than some of us.
    The danger they pose to white folk too is significant.
    You should discuss this with the OP in particular.
    And check out....
    Some Wrongful Cop Behavior That Doesn't Spark Riots

    It pays great dividends to avoid cops, especially when they're
    excited, & to take Chris Rock's advice on dealing with them.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  8. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2011
    Messages:
    15,193
    Ratings:
    +6,288
    Religion:
    Atheist Libertarian
    I don't have much to worry about because, I wouldn't be trying to pass counterfeit notes. I wouldn't be drunk in public and I would be polite and cooperate fully with the police.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  9. Lyndon

    Lyndon "Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2014
    Messages:
    7,170
    Ratings:
    +3,468
    Religion:
    Theism+Jesus(pbuh) influenced by....... Taoism and Buddhism
    And if you were black that still wouldn't be enough, he was killed because he was black, not because he was intoxicated
     
  10. bobhikes

    bobhikes Nowoligist
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2009
    Messages:
    8,419
    Ratings:
    +2,241
    How many chose to be intoxicated every day and aren't arrested

    How many people pass fake bills (I've unknowingly passed several in my life, never had the cops called on me)

    There was no reason to put him in the vehicle but even then he was clearly not resisting on the ground while pleading for his life.

    He died because the Cop killed him.
     
  11. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Hihg Intellajence Kwoshunt.
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    166,397
    Ratings:
    +51,449
    Religion:
    Bokononist Atheism
    Were there no contributing factors within his control?
     
  12. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Hihg Intellajence Kwoshunt.
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    166,397
    Ratings:
    +51,449
    Religion:
    Bokononist Atheism
    The point of the OP is that there are risk factors which one can control.
    Are you saying that they aren't risk factors?
     
  13. bobhikes

    bobhikes Nowoligist
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2009
    Messages:
    8,419
    Ratings:
    +2,241
    I am saying they are not facts that would lead people to being killed. If he was white, a women or someone one of the cops respected he wouldn't be dead.
     
  14. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2009
    Messages:
    45,247
    Ratings:
    +4,064
    there was brief notation of a heart condition

    drunk and smoking cigarettes ….and then stressed

    his heart gave out

    but yeah …...the lack of discretion is evident
     
  15. Hubert Farnsworth

    Hubert Farnsworth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2016
    Messages:
    3,578
    Ratings:
    +2,405
    Religion:
    Atheist
    I think both you and @Nakosis are correct. Of course the officer is a horrible person, what he did was absolutely horrendous and he should be prosecuted for murder (frankly I wish the officer could be executed). However, I think Floyd could have prevented his own death. I don't see what's wrong with pointing that out. I've never been arrested before but if I ever get arrested, you can be damn sure I'm not going to try to resist the officers, because I don't want to risk my own life. It's not victim blaming to point this out. The same thing can be said about victims of any other crime. There are things people can do to reduce their chances of becoming a victim of almost any crime. I don't understand what's wrong with pointing that out.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  16. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2009
    Messages:
    45,247
    Ratings:
    +4,064
    more whites die each year than any other group
    at the hands of the police
     
  17. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Hihg Intellajence Kwoshunt.
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    166,397
    Ratings:
    +51,449
    Religion:
    Bokononist Atheism
    But they increase the probability of bad results when dealing with cops.
    Wrongo pongo.
    Cops kill more white than black folk.
    The latter are merely a higher percentage.
    Check the OP's videos....
    Some Wrongful Cop Behavior That Doesn't Spark Riots

    I'm concerned that so many people believe that it makes no
    difference how one conducts oneself around cops. And that
    black folk are in continuous imminent danger, & that white folk
    are safe. All are in some danger.

    This PSA is useful.
    Caution: Some profanity & simulated violence.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Hubert Farnsworth

    Hubert Farnsworth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2016
    Messages:
    3,578
    Ratings:
    +2,405
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Probably a lot. But choosing to be intoxicated every day is certainly an unwise choice if one wishes to minimize his/her chances of getting in harm's way.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Messages:
    6,534
    Ratings:
    +6,408
    Religion:
    None, a humanist who doesn't even worship humans
    Yes, there were risk factors, and some of them were within Floyd's control. That being said, it must still appear, at least by the numbers, that the biggest risk factor is the one that he could not control -- the colour of his skin.

    Since 2017, 1,268 white people, 698 black people and 498 Hispanic people have been killed by police in the US. The numbers tell us this: black men are more than twice as likely to be shot and killed by police than whites on a per capita basis. Native Americans and Hispanics are also substantially more likely. Women, hardly at all.

    Now, some other interesting comparisons by country (these number are per 100 people 2016-17 data):

    United States --- Estimated guns per 100 people 120.5 Fatal shootings by police 996
    Canada --- Guns 34.7 fatal shootings 36
    Finland --- Guns 32.4 fatal shootings 3
    Iceland --- Guns 31.7 fatal shootings 0
    Switzerland --- Guns 27.6 fatal shootings 0
    Sweden --- Guns 23.1 fatal shootings 6
    France --- Guns 19.6 fatal shootings 26

    Source of above
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  20. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2005
    Messages:
    62,982
    Ratings:
    +22,154
    Religion:
    God is in the Rain
    No excuse! Your three reasons of victim blame do not matter. What happened is inexcusable, the cops are not the judge, jury, and executioner, and Floyd died because we have crap standards for police, crap training for police, and a sadistic mentality of being hard on crime, prinoting law and order, and worshiping those who kill us all (white, black, yellow, red, brown, or blue, we are equally cattle for the slaughter before their eyes) with impunity.
     
Loading...