Can women be prophetesses in Abrahamic religions?

[gnostic]

In another thread that I started, Ishmael is not a prophet, it was to display that Ishmael is not Judaeo-Christian sources, namely the Genesis in the Tanakh or Bible, though the Islamic Qur'an listed him as one of the prophets. Ishmael could be a patriarch for the Ishmaelites, but there seemed to be no biblical evidences to say that he was a prophet.

Then I gave example that Hagar had fulfilled the requirement of prophethood more so than her son, because twice a divine agent (either god or angel) spoke to her (Genesis 16 & 21:9-21), and revealed that her son (Ishmael) would be ancestor of nation, separate to that of Isaac's line.

I got into debate with Proud Muslim of whether a woman can be a prophet (prophetess) or not.

Her examples is that none one woman was listed in the Qur'an to be prophetess, and that women were not strong enough to be prophets (eg. men are stronger than women). She also say that since women were not listed in the Qur'an that they were prohibited from becoming prophets, even though such explicit prohibition (which she later admitted) are absence in the Qur'an.

I, on the other hand, argue that physical strength has nothing to do with a person being a prophet, and that both Hagar and Sarah (Genesis 18:9-15) were prophetesses, and listed

My last example to Proud Muslim is that Miriam, sister of Moses, was explicitly linked to being a prophetess (Exodus 15:20).

Anyway, this new topic is not about Ishmael, but whether Jews, Christians or Muslims (or any other Abrahamic religions) believe that women can be prophetesses or not:

• If you believe women you can explain why, and give examples of who these women were.
• If you don't, then you can also explain why women can't become prophetesses?
• Do strength matters?

Provide sources for your explanations and examples.

 

[Mister Emu]

As you noted Miriam is called a Prophetess, as well as Deborah (Judges 4:4), Huldah (2 Kings 22:14), Noadiah (Nehemiah 6:14), Anna (Luke 2:36)...

 

[gnostic]

As you noted Miriam is called a Prophetess, as well as Deborah (Judges 4:4), Huldah (2 Kings 22:14), Noadiah (Nehemiah 6:14), Anna (Luke 2:36)...

Thank you, Mister Emu.

I am far more familiar with the Genesis and Exodus, then I am with the rest of the bible. I know of Deborah, but wasn't too sure if she fit the bill.

Thanks, you have been most helpful with the list of names.

I supposed Eve could be prophetess too, even though she was not listed explicitly as one.

Perhaps, even Mary mother of Jesus too.

Do you think that women being weaker than men disqualified them of being prophets?

That's not my argument, but Proud Muslim. She seemed to think that strength has lot to do with becoming a prophet. I would of thought wisdom is better suit as requirement of becoming a prophet, and not strength.

And i am a woman and i find laughable when a man tries to "empower" me by insulting my intelligence. Do you think we the women dont know that we are (and this is generally speaking) emotional beings, that we are physically not as strong as men, that internal instincts can overpower our feelings and hence perhaps our actions, that back then a woman in that condition is impossible to run and lead random, uncivilized and aggressive men. In fact even now a woman will not be able to control such men.

How on earth did you come up with this conclusion? Biologically the woman IS weaker than man, emotionally the woman IS weaker than man. This is accepted as general traits. Why do you even argue about it?

I have explained in a previous post how can a woman back then can control and lead savage random tribes led by men?? In fact given the same situation, a woman cannot lead such men even now. Again this is generally speaking. I am not talking about 'wonder woman' now.

 

[Mister Emu]

Do you think that women being weaker than men disqualified them of being prophets?

Certainly not...

 

[ChrisP]

Anyone can be a prophet. It's all about the success to failure ratio

 

[Sahar]

Some Muslim scholars consider Mary (pbuh) as a prophetess.

 

[gnostic]

Do you think that women being weaker than men disqualified them of being prophets?

Certainly not...

I think any number of possible reasons could qualify a person of becoming prophet, but the thread on Ishmael is not a prophet is the 1st time I heard it has something to do with strength, which qualify men, but not women.

Faith is perhaps the number 1 reason and belief a close second. Then wisdom. I would place physical strength at the bottom of list of qualities.

 

[gnostic]

Some Muslim scholars consider Mary (pbuh) as a prophetess.

Proud Muslim seemed to think that women are disqualified of being prophet because she lack the physical strength.

She could not find anything in the Qur'an that say so, other than the noticeable absence of women, when the Qur'an list the names of prophets.

I take it that you don't agree with her.

 

[Mister Emu]

Faith is perhaps the number 1 reason and belief a close second. Then wisdom. I would place physical strength at the bottom of list of qualities.

Indeed... I'm not sure that physical strength would even be on the list of qualifications for prophethood at all...

 

[Caladan]

According to the Talmud there were also seven women who are counted as prophets whose message bears relevance for all generations: Sarah, Miriam, Devorah, Hannah (mother of the prophet Samuel), Abigail (a wife of King David), Huldah (from the time of Jeremiah), and Esther. Rashi points out that Rebecca, Rachel, and Leah were also prophets.

from a section touching Israelite prophetesses: Prophet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[gnostic]

That's helpful to know, Caladan.

I have not read much of the Talmud.

 

[Buttons*]

Some Muslim scholars consider Mary (pbuh) as a prophetess.

What about Hagar? Wouldn't she be up there because of the angels who talked with her?

 

[ChristineES]

Deborah was not only a prophetess, she also ruled the Israelites as a judge, too.

 

[Caladan]

That's helpful to know, Caladan.

I have not read much of the Talmud.

Actually, you dont need to read the Talmud in order to learn about Israelite prophetesses, the Hebrew Bible itself teaches it.

 

[AbuKhalid]

Islam has no women Prophets. There is a minority opinion amongst some of the Scholars that Mariam was a Prophet as pointed out but this is a weak opinion.

While I don't think strength is necessarily a condition of Prophethood there are other issues related to being a woman which would prevent them from becoming a Prophet. A Prophet would have to lead the prayers of his followers yet this is forbidden for women in Islam. A woman can get pregnant and would have to "take time off" which is not really something a Prophet can do. Plus a woman is the main home maker and raiser of children which again would prevent duties as a Prophet.

So while there is nothing directly ruling out a woman as a Prophet I believe that there never where any women Prophets.

 

[AbuKhalid]

What about Hagar? Wouldn't she be up there because of the angels who talked with her?

Talking to angels wouldnt make a person a Prophet.

 

[gnostic]

Talking to angels wouldnt make a person a Prophet.

Then that would clearly rule out Muhammad and Joseph Smith as being prophets, since they were both only visited by angels.

Islam has no women Prophets. There is a minority opinion amongst some of the Scholars that Mariam was a Prophet as pointed out but this is a weak opinion.

If you are talking about Mary or Miriam, mother of Jesus, then perhaps she isn't one.

However, Miriam, sister of Moses and Aaron, is clearly and explicitly mentioned as being a prophetess in Exodus 15:20.

Then Miriam the prophetess, Aaron's sister, took a timbrel in her hand, and all the women went out after her in dance with timbrels.

So on that basis, your own argument about women can't become female prophets and opinion are weak ones.

Thanks to Mister Emu, we have other names to go in the list of female prophets.

Deborah, wife of Lappidoth, was a prophetess, she led Israel at that time.

So the priest Hilkiah, and Ahikam, Achblor, Shaphan, and Asaiah went to the prophetess Huldah - the wife of Shallum son of Tikvah son of Harhas, the keeper of the wardrobe - who was living in Jerusalem in the Mishneth, and they spoke to her.

"Oh, my God, remember against Tobiah and Sanballat these deeds of theirs, and against Noadiah the prophetess, and against the other prophets that they wished to intimidate me."

Though, Noadiah may well be a false prophetess. But you have 3 other women who are explicitly in the Tanakh (or OT) that they were prophetesses.

And in the NT Bible, there's Anna.

There was a very old prophetess, a widow named Anna, daughter of Phanuel of the tribe of Asher...

You really can't discount them, simply on your opinion that women may become pregnant, or the ridiculous rule in Islam, that women can't lead prayer. If these women were indeed prophetesses, then it is certain that they could lead prayers.

At least 3 of the examples above, where the women were married (Deborah, Huldah and Anna), whom you referred to as being "homemakers". Whether they had children or not, is not mentioned in those passage, but none of these mention anything about the women having children.

 

[Mister Emu]

Though, Noadiah may well be a false prophetess.

Gah, I didn't even look at the surrounding text, you seem to be correct...

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I don't see what could possibly exempt women from also being deluded into thinking they have some sort of insight into the future.

 

[MoonWater]

I don't see what could possibly exempt women from also being deluded into thinking they have some sort of insight into the future.

In this instance "prophet" doesn't mean "predicting the future" but instead means "being a 'mouthpiece' for god". Indeed from what I understand of my studies the latter is actually the first and most accurate definition of a prophet even though it is less familiar.