Can women be prophetesses in Abrahamic religions?

[Gharib]

just for the record, a whole chapter is dedicated to the treatment of women in the quran. it shows their importance and equality to men in their own different ways. remember

 

[gnostic]

do you want the islamic point of view on this issue or do you just want to prove us wrong by saying that the jews believe women can be "chosen ones" and since our religion is similar but does not mentione women, we have a mistake in the quran, is that what you are trying to do?

Have you read my OP, especially the last part?

Anyway, this new topic is not about Ishmael, but whether Jews, Christians or Muslims (or any other Abrahamic religions) believe that women can be prophetesses or not:

• If you believe women you can explain why, and give examples of who these women were.
• If you don't, then you can also explain why women can't become prophetesses?
• Do strength matters?

This thread was not supposed to be between me and the Muslims. And this is not about Ishmael being a prophet or not, because I have already cover this. It was supposed to be a general debates for all, trying to find out if there were any female prophets in the 3 Abrahamic (mainstream) religions.

Let me give you a little background about me, eselam:

I have read the entire bible only once. Just once. When I was a teenager. A lot of the things that I've read I have forgotten. And I don't have encyclopedia memory. I have re-read some books that interest a number of times, and the Genesis countless time, because I still think the Genesis is the most interesting part of the scripture.

But getting to my point.

So when I wrote this topic and the other one about Ishmael, I didn't remember if there were female prophet or not. I didn't take notes when I read the whole bible the first time.

And since I don't know some part of the bible that well, thankfully, mister emu have provided references to these female prophets, which helped me prove that women prophets do exist in the Tanakh or Bible.
​

And that's the honest truth.
​

== end of background ==

When I wrote the previous topic, I reread the Genesis, especially on reference on Ishmael, I discovered that Hagar had more rights to be a female prophet than Ishmael being one. God didn't promise that Ishmael would be a prophet, HOWEVER, God did promise Hagar (as well as Abraham) that he would be ancestor of many descendants and a large nation. That's all. No evidence that he was prophet.

Have you read the Genesis?

Then you would have to agree that I did my research quite thoroughly about both Hagar and Ishmael.

As to your question:

I wasn't questioning the Qur'an being wrong, eselam.

You do admit that the Qur'an is not copy of the bible, don't you?

That being so, the Qur'an is bound to leave out some names and stories that were mentioned in other two scriptures. It doesn't make the Qur'an wrong; it only just the Qur'an different to the Bible and the Tanakh.

Do you understand what I am saying.

I am saying that the Muslims are wrong, not the Qur'an?

Do you see the difference?

I am questioning the interpretations of some Muslims about the Qur'an, not the Qur'an itself. I think their opinions are wrong.

So you got me all wrong, eselam, with your reply.

The posters, like Proud Muslim, and a couple of others, admitted that there is no verse in the Qur'an, and even Sunnah, have anything that explicitly prohibited women from being female prophets, hence it is only their opinions that women can't become prophets.

I am not challenging Islam; but I am challenging their opinions.

I gave ample evidences, by quoting my sources about Hagar (in the topic about Ishmael), and here about Miriam, Deborah, Huldah and Anna.

Other Muslims here have neither disprove these references to the female prophets, except to post their opinion or interpretations, nor have they found any Qur'anic or Sunnah reference that prohibit women prophets

Muslims think or pride themselves of being knowing science. If they know science, then they should know that evidences outweigh any opinions. But so far they have not don't so.

I have given the relevant verses, but none of them have yet discredit my findings.

 

[gnostic]

just for the record, a whole chapter is dedicated to the treatment of women in the quran. it shows their importance and equality to men in their own different ways. remember

Which is irrelevant here. This is about the looking for female prophets, not about equality.

 

[gnostic]

I was hoping that more Christians and Jews writing in this topic.

 

[Sahar]

Who will take the bible, for instance, as evidence for anything are its followers. What you bring as evidence, doesn't mean anything to me.
It's just like me telling a non Muslim who doesn't believe in the Qur'an, how come you deny that Ismael is a prophet, how come? Are you deaf? Blind? Ignorant?
Without any doubt, what's said in the Qur'an doesn't have any weight to him, contrary to Muslims.

 

[gnostic]

It's just like me telling a non Muslim who doesn't believe in the Qur'an, how come you deny that Ismael is a prophet, how come? Are you deaf? Blind? Ignorant?
Without any doubt, what's said in the Qur'an doesn't have any weight to him, contrary to Muslims.

Well, can you provide me the 46 signs or parts that make Ishmael a prophet?

Until you do, you haven't proven that he is a prophet. You don't have to use the tanakh or bible. YOU CAN USE the Qur'an, Sunnah or whatever Islamic materials, that you wish.

A list of names of prophet is not a sign. It has to be the sign that was revealed to Ishmael, not Muhammad.

I am quite willing to admit I am wrong, if you (or any other Muslims) can even provide half of 46 signs about Ishmael's prophethood?

Who will take the bible, for instance, as evidence for anything are its followers. What you bring as evidence, doesn't mean anything to me.

Exactly. Muslims say that they believe in all prophets and all prophets are equals, and yet in reality, they only just believe in one.

Well, it is not about bible, tanakh, qur'an or any other literature. Is being able to read, research and analyse whatever literature is available, and not just the one. I did not write the bible or tanakh, I used it to support argument, which is something you and everyone else should be doing.

I am not just non-Muslim. I'm non-Christian and non-Jewish. I am in fact non-religious, but it would seem that I can research better than you and others who have participated in this thread.

When you ignore everything else, then how can claim to be open-minded and not looked "ignorant".

Do you know how ignorant you sound, when you say that what you said about evidence?

Only the ignorants would ignore evidences.

 

[Sahar]

Well, can you provide me the 46 signs or parts that make Ishmael a prophet?

Sorry what 46 signs?

Until you do, you haven't proven that he is a prophet.

I don't have to prove he is a prophet. He was a prophet according to the Qur'an. Period.

When you ignore everything else, then how can claim to be open-minded and not looked "ignorant".

Ignore who?
I believe in what the Qur'an called prophets as prophets. I don't have to believe in what any other book says.

Do you know how ignorant you sound, when you say that what you said about evidence?

Actually no one here sounds ignorant and has difficultly in understanding what was told many times except YOU.

 

[Rakhel]

I was hoping that more Christians and Jews writing in this topic.

The Prophetesses of the Jewish and Christian faiths are listed quite plainly and there is little if no debate about who they are and why(with the exception of maybe who is listed in the NT. I don't know, haven't argued that yet).

 

[gnostic]

Sorry what 46 signs?

According to Proud Muslim and fullyveiled muslimah, a person required 46 signs or parts before becoming a prophet.

I have never heard of this too, until Proud Muslim brought this "46 business", first, in the topic Ishmael is not a prophet.

fullyveiled muslimah brought this up in this topic (see post #36):

Gnostic, I'd just like to take this time out to say that you have no idea what you're talking about. It has been revealed to us through our Nabi (saw) that there are in fact 46 parts of nubuwwat (prophethood). Being visited by angels, or achieving a certain level of piety does not make on a prophet.

I am not sure, but this is in one of hadiths or sunnah.

If you don't know then ask one of these 2 girls.

I, myself, am very skeptical about this claim.

 

[gnostic]

The Prophetesses of the Jewish and Christian faiths are listed quite plainly and there is little if no debate about who they are and why(with the exception of maybe who is listed in the NT. I don't know, haven't argued that yet).

It is quite understandable if you don't accept the NT, if you're Jewish.

Do you think Eve, Hagar and Sarah were prophetesses?

And what requirements of being a prophet?

Faith? Wisdom? Being chosen? Strength?

I personally don't strength have anything to do with being chosen as a prophet or prophetess.

 

[gnostic]

Prophetesses such as Deborah didnt go through this kind of humiliation, the Bible describes her as a leader and a judge over Israel.

Exactly.

Two whole chapters in Judges were devoted to Deborah, as being a judge for 40 years. And though married, she was quite independent and certainly not weak.

 

[Sahar]

According to Proud Muslim and fullyveiled muslimah, a person required 46 signs or parts before becoming a prophet.

I have never heard of this too, until Proud Muslim brought this "46 business", first, in the topic Ishmael is not a prophet.

fullyveiled muslimah brought this up in this topic (see post #36):



I am not sure, but this is in one of hadiths or sunnah.

If you don't know then ask one of these 2 girls.

I, myself, am very skeptical about this claim.

I didn't know this.

 

[gnostic]

I didn't know this.

I didn't know this too.

That's why I want some answer from some Muslims, whether it be fullyveiled muslimah, or some other more knowledgable Muslims here.

I don't know about you, but I very dubious to the claim of 46 parts or signs of the prophet. I've been frustrated :banghead3: because they seem to disappear the move I ask for proofs on Ishmael's 46.

 

[gnostic]

Can I ask you question, not4me?

Have you read the Tanakh or Bible?

The reason I ask, is perhaps you don't know the story of Deborah. If you read Judges 4 and 5 (from either Tanakh or Bible), then you would see that not all women before Muhammad's time were weak or needing protection from men, as Proud Muslim and few think they do.

Deborah, clearly had heroic nature, strong and independent, nothing like Proud Muslim described in Ishmael is not a prophet thread.

I don't know of your circumstances.

Do Islam (or even your Egyptian community or government) prohibit women from reading other scriptures (meaning non-Islamic scriptures), even for research purposes?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Two whole chapters in Judges were devoted to Deborah, as being a judge for 40 years.

... a rather blatant hint! :yes:

 

[Falvlun]

Just a general questions to those who are knowledgable about Islam:

Does Islam accept the prophets mentioned in the Torah as prophets?

Someone claimed this and I wanted to verify.

 

[Enoch07]

I cant speak for Islam or Jewish faiths. But as noted there was women prophets before, granted there will be no more though, just because Jesus said there would be no more prophets (man or woman) after Him.

 

[Rakhel]

It is quite understandable if you don't accept the NT, if you're Jewish.

Do you think Eve, Hagar and Sarah were prophetesses?

Eve, possible. Hagar, I won't say definitely not. Sarah, probably.

And what requirements of being a prophet?

Faith? Wisdom? Being chosen? Strength?

I personally don't strength have anything to do with being chosen as a prophet or prophetess.

To be honest, I don't know what the requirements are, but I have to agree that physical strength alone does not make a prophet. Maybe all they had was strength in faith.

 

[gnostic]

Eve, possible. Hagar, I won't say definitely not. Sarah, probably.

They were never called "prophetesses", like Miriam or Deborah, but then again, many of the male characters in the Genesis, like Adam, Noah, Isaac and Jacob. Enoch was said to have "walk with God" and in "fellowship" or something similar, were clearly sign that he was prophet. Only once was the word "prophet" used in the Genesis, and that was Abraham.

I think this can apply to the women, who were never explicitly mention as being "prophetess", but from the narrative, it would seem unmentioned "prophetess" were ones.

 

[fullyveiled muslimah]

Prophetesses such as Deborah didnt go through this kind of humiliation, the Bible describes her as a leader and a judge over Israel.



Both of these posts seem weird to me. ancient women leaders are not unheard of, and I can think of a few who have achieved great status of leadership:
Queen Hatshepsuth of Egypt, Boudica queen of the lceni tribe in what is today east Britain who led a revolt against the Romans, Joan of Arc who led the French army against the English, Kahena who lead the Berbers in battle against the Invading Muslims, the Biblical Queen of Sheba, Cleopatra- Egypt's last Pharoah.

I just want to point out that being of noble birth or a ruler is not the same thing as being a prophet from the Islamic POV. It cannot be denied there were many female rulers in ancient times up until today. What also must be mentioned was that in order to receive that respect and recognition she HAD to be of noble birth and bloodline. The average woman of ancient times didn't have it so well. Unless we're going to do a little revisionist history and say that women in general had it pretty good, which we know that's not true. So yes there were plenty of well recongnized queens and respected female figures, but this was not the typical state of things especially for women. History is replete with instances of women being treated less than human, denied education, denied simple rights, etc etc.

There were some Prophets who were also kings, but many many more who were from the poor and the average people. This is what I'm thinking of, a woman from among the poor and average. Women having it good was the exception not the rule.