Can an Atheist be a Mystic?

[David T]

Definitely. If anything, it may well be an advantage.

People often neglect the heavy constraints and disadvantages of the use of god-concepts.

For the purpose of this thread, we will use the following dictionary definition for 'mystic'...

"a person who seeks by contemplation and self-surrender to obtain unity with or absorption into the Deity or the absolute, or who believes in the spiritual apprehension of truths that are beyond the intellect."

https://www.google.com/search?q=mys...0l3j69i59l2.1043j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

There is at least one form of atheism that rejects the existence of Gods in favor of a higher absolute...

"Axiological, or constructive, atheism rejects the existence of gods in favor of a "higher absolute", such as humanity. This form of atheism favors humanity as the absolute source of ethics and values, and permits individuals to resolve moral problems without resorting to God. Marx and Freud used this argument to convey messages of liberation, full-development, and unfettered happiness."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

With the given that the term "or" in the above definition of mystic can mean a link to alternatives, we can remove 'Deity' from the definition.

So stipulated, can an atheist such as an axiological atheist or existential atheist be a mystic?

Mystics by the term mystic don't believe.... But that has zero to do with atheism.

"I don't believe" the sun will rise does not cause the sun to not rise, any more than " I do believe" the sun will rise causes the sun to rise.

Nature is independent of " i believe I do not believe." Thus mystics are independent from "I believe I do not believe."

"I believe I do not believe" is a singular limited region of the brain throwing darts in the wrong direction. Socrates alludes to this in the shadows on the cave wall.

 

[David T]

It is often under-appreciated how much having an firm notion of god can hinder or prevent a mystical experience that is not a mere self-fulfilling prophecy.

Burn the Bible.... If I was teaching theology that's how I would start it. Then I would toss in biology math texts and top it off with the "GOD OF WORDS" Webster s. Obviously it's Satan it has a red cover. Force the class to camp out for 40 days and 40 nights in the Wilderness. Ya wanna understand jesus kiddies ya gotta go to the source first nature, to arrive at the text second. Zondervan is the devil.

Dead poets society Robin Williams intro to poetry. Awesome scene.

 

[crossfire]

For the purpose of this thread, we will use the following dictionary definition for 'mystic'...

"a person who seeks by contemplation and self-surrender to obtain unity with or absorption into the Deity or the absolute, or who believes in the spiritual apprehension of truths that are beyond the intellect."

https://www.google.com/search?q=mys...0l3j69i59l2.1043j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

There is at least one form of atheism that rejects the existence of Gods in favor of a higher absolute...

"Axiological, or constructive, atheism rejects the existence of gods in favor of a "higher absolute", such as humanity. This form of atheism favors humanity as the absolute source of ethics and values, and permits individuals to resolve moral problems without resorting to God. Marx and Freud used this argument to convey messages of liberation, full-development, and unfettered happiness."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

With the given that the term "or" in the above definition of mystic can mean a link to alternatives, we can remove 'Deity' from the definition.

So stipulated, can an atheist such as an axiological atheist or existential atheist be a mystic?

Yes, in the sense of "or {one} who believes in the spiritual apprehension of truths that are beyond the intellect." part of the definition.

 

[David T]

Definitely. If anything, it may well be an advantage.

People often neglect the heavy constraints and disadvantages of the use of god-concepts.

Atheist is a god concept

 

[David T]

Yes, in the sense of "or {one} who believes in the spiritual apprehension of truths that are beyond the intellect." part of the definition.

Beyond the intellect? The intellect has no clue what determines it except itself! I will stand over here in the beyond and laugh because the great beyond isn't that far away because the great beyond determines that intellect thingies over there. It's a thumb.

 

[crossfire]

It is often under-appreciated how much having an firm notion of god can hinder or prevent a mystical experience that is not a mere self-fulfilling prophecy.

Agreed. Not only do you have the placebo effect to consider, but also the nocebo effect.

 

[LuisDantas]

I do not think that the self proclaimed atheists have any inclination for the bolded items. It is one matter, to not commit with 'yes' or 'no', as in case of the Buddha. It is another matter when a person asserts absence of anything that is higher than the ego.

This is yet another occasion when you basically come and tell me that you have a very unreliable, flawed understanding of atheists.

 

[crossfire]

Atheist is a god concept

Agreed.

 

[LuisDantas]

Atheist is a god concept

Perhaps for some people and in some contexts.

Not so for most that I find and frequent.

 

[David T]

Agreed.

This whole term mystic bothers me in how it's understood. I don't trust self defined people who claim to be "mystics" it seems that the individual is confused or a sociopath hiding.

I understand that term as something we call someone whom touches upon something not easily grasped but felt.. Music has been my default form I have found to be my best expression. Not that I am good at it no I am horrible at it but my form of expression non the less.
St Francis whom is probably the world's most famous Christian mystic said:
"Laboures work with their hands, craftsmen work with their hands and their minds, artists work with their hands their minds and their heart."

He doesn't go around going "I AM A MYSTIC" that's a term as the reader we place upon him. He understands himself as an artist. Which makes him wierd!!!! No real mystic of quality has never, not been an artist, all self proclaimed mystics are of extremely questionable artistry.

 

[David T]

Perhaps for some people and in some contexts.

Not so for most that I find and frequent.

Mediocre art is ubiquitous. Atheism is in recovery from dysfunctional religion. A step from not an arrival to. Atheists drop the atheism schitct as being but that if they become grounded in nature. Atheism is not grounded in nature itself like most of religion. John. Muir writings are loopy from an atheist view because Muir is not talking about "I don't believe/I believe". At all. I have yet to hear here a single atheist articulate a John Muir connection to nature that seems to be impossible.

 

[crossfire]

This whole term mystic bothers me in how it's understood. I don't trust self defined people who claim to be "mystics" it seems that the individual is confused or a sociopath hiding.

I understand that term as something we call someone whom touches upon something not easily grasped but felt.. Music has been my default form I have found to be my best expression. Not that I am good at it no I am horrible at it but my form of expression non the less.
St Francis whom is probably the world's most famous Christian mystic said:
"Laboures work with their hands, craftsmen work with their hands and their minds, artists work with their hands their minds and their heart."

He doesn't go around going "I AM A MYSTIC" that's a term as the reader we place upon him. He understands himself as an artist. Which makes him wierd!!!! No real mystic of quality has never, not been an artist, all self proclaimed mystics are of extremely questionable artistry.

Hey, I don't normally going around saying, "I'm a mystic," either, except here on RF which is an appropriate place to discuss these things.

 

[LuisDantas]

Mediocre art is ubiquitous. Atheism is in recovery from dysfunctional religion. A step from not an arrival to. Atheists drop the atheism schitct as being but that if they become grounded in nature. Atheism is not grounded in nature itself like most of religion.

I don't know who you are talking about, but I sure do not think you are talking about the atheists that I am a part of.

I somewhat wonder if I will ever meet those that you are talking about. Sound like a remarkable bunch.

 

[George-ananda]

For the purpose of this thread, we will use the following dictionary definition for 'mystic'...

"a person who seeks by contemplation and self-surrender to obtain unity with or absorption into the Deity or the absolute, or who believes in the spiritual apprehension of truths that are beyond the intellect."

https://www.google.com/search?q=mys...0l3j69i59l2.1043j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

There is at least one form of atheism that rejects the existence of Gods in favor of a higher absolute...

"Axiological, or constructive, atheism rejects the existence of gods in favor of a "higher absolute", such as humanity. This form of atheism favors humanity as the absolute source of ethics and values, and permits individuals to resolve moral problems without resorting to God. Marx and Freud used this argument to convey messages of liberation, full-development, and unfettered happiness."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

With the given that the term "or" in the above definition of mystic can mean a link to alternatives, we can remove 'Deity' from the definition.

So stipulated, can an atheist such as an axiological atheist or existential atheist be a mystic?

My opinion is that a materialist-atheist (the majority of atheists) can not be a mystic without contradicting his materialist beliefs.

 

[YmirGF]

So stipulated, can an atheist such as an axiological atheist or existential atheist be a mystic?

*Waves*

This "modern" mystic is most certainly a "strong" atheist. It was my ever-deepening experiences that confirmed my atheism and that was after approaching my conception of divinity. The event seems to have been designed for me to see through it. To see past it... ... into deeper meaning and appreciation for and of being. Just the idea of going past ideas of god is a tremendously liberating perception. To know you are not bound by a mistaken paradigm, or perhaps, if I'm feeling generous, an incomplete understanding of reality. Wise after the event?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Definitely. If anything, it may well be an advantage.

People often neglect the heavy constraints and disadvantages of the use of god-concepts.

I didn't know atheists did metaphysics. I know David Hume one of the greatest empirical philosophers didn't.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

My opinion is that a materialist-atheist (the majority of atheists) can not be a mystic without contradicting his materialist beliefs.

^ This

 

[Epic Beard Man]

It is often under-appreciated how much having an firm notion of god can hinder or prevent a mystical experience that is not a mere self-fulfilling prophecy.

I disagree. I think the hindrance is due to the notion of the fervent believers we have seen in history who have soiled the so-called "God concept." It is without a doubt as George stated, that it would be a violation of materialistic beliefs if atheists can find something mystical. sure, you can meditate but this is different than having a metaphysical experience (ex-God if you supposed) as an atheist something that philosophically is contradictory.

 

[crossfire]

I've chatted with many metaphysical idealist atheists and materialist pantheists to know that atheism does not necessarily equate to materialism and vice versa.

 

[LuisDantas]

My opinion is that a materialist-atheist (the majority of atheists) can not be a mystic without contradicting his materialist beliefs.

I am not sure that such a subset even exists in real life, let alone that it is majority of my atheist brothers and sisters.