Beliefs in an afterlife - the problems?

[Ayjaydee]

Well, I would say 'worse off'. The universe would seem a more pointless and depressing thing to me.

I dont see that the universe must have a point

 

[George-ananda]

I dont see that the universe must have a point

I don't say 'must' either but rather 'does'. I see the universe as a creation of universal consciousness.

 

[Ayjaydee]

I don't say 'must' either but rather 'does'. I see the universe as a creation of universal consciousness.

I'm not convinced it was created at all

 

[Mock Turtle]

Well, I would say 'worse off'. The universe would seem a more pointless and depressing thing to me.

Not to me. I have had enough experiences in life to appreciate what humans can have to make life as they might want, given that we often have to endure much pain, struggle, etc. along with that which enhances our lives, and that many others are not so fortunate. But then that is up to us to rectify - to make our existence better for others as much as for ourselves, and I don't see the concept of some kind of afterlife as being in any way helpful - when what we do now on Earth is what will help others. Afterlives just seem various forms of carrot to believe a particular religion. Obviously all can't be true, and as mentioned in the OP, do seem to come with negative effects.

 

[osgart]

Well what exactly is it that ceases to exist?Ceasing to exist is an assumption in my eyes.

I don't buy into heaven and hell. I live without that burden. I don't see the afterlife as punishing nor rewarding.

The liberating part is shedding the body of suffering. Growing past the roots of being into a higher planes of existence.

Believing in an afterlife makes me extremely patient, and less desperate to fulfill my life in the here and now.

I think karma is something you create with other people. People make their own heavens, and own hells in living. There seems to be a justice to having a good life. Spiritual growth into love, peace, and joy is my main goal in living. In the absence of the existence of purpose there seems to be higher purpose anyways. And that makes me wonder if there is more out there.

 

[Ayjaydee]

Well what exactly is it that ceases to exist?Ceasing to exist is an assumption in my eyes.

I don't buy into heaven and hell. I live without that burden. I don't see the afterlife as punishing nor rewarding.

The liberating part is shedding the body of suffering. Growing past the roots of being into a higher planes of existence.

Believing in an afterlife makes me extremely patient, and less desperate to fulfill my life in the here and now.

I think karma is something you create with other people. People make their own heavens, and own hells in living. There seems to be a justice to having a good life. Spiritual growth into love, peace, and joy is my main goal in living. In the absence of the existence of purpose there seems to be higher purpose anyways. And that makes me wonder if there is more out there.

Couldn't heaven be seen as your higher plane of existence?

 

[osgart]

Couldn't heaven be seen as your higher plane of existence?

Couldn't heaven be seen as your higher plane of existence?

The higher planes of existence are only going to be what people make of it. So I expect the same human struggles in it.

 

[Ayjaydee]

The higher planes of existence are only going to be what people make of it. So I expect the same human struggles in it.

Buddhist theory provides for trouble in paradises. Lol

 

[Quintessence]

Probably not, but you are welcome to.

It deserved it's own thread, so I made one here - Beliefs in an afterlife - the benefits?

 

[George-ananda]

I'm not convinced it was created at all

Well, that's a different issue than the one I was addressing with thread question.

I am actually a believer in Advaita philosophy (non-dualism = God and creation are not-two) for reasons too involved to get into in this thread about afterlife. So my perspective is probably different than yours. I see the universe as all a play/drama of Consciousness/God/Brahman.

 

[George-ananda]

Not to me. I have had enough experiences in life to appreciate what humans can have to make life as they might want, given that we often have to endure much pain, struggle, etc. along with that which enhances our lives, and that many others are not so fortunate. But then that is up to us to rectify - to make our existence better for others as much as for ourselves, and I don't see the concept of some kind of afterlife as being in any way helpful - when what we do now on Earth is what will help others.

And I see an intelligent spiritual understanding of reality (including our evolution through many lives) as beneficial to our strive to be compassionate to others.

Afterlives just seem various forms of carrot to believe a particular religion. Obviously all can't be true, and as mentioned in the OP, do seem to come with negative effects.

Well I for one believe in the afterlife not as an add-on to my particular religion but because of the paranormal/psychic evidence. It is part of my reality.

Because some religious folks may have propagated some poor thinking is no reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater,

 

[GoodbyeDave]

I'm not aware of any authenticated reports of societies with no belief in an afterlife — it's the default position. Disbelief is generally the result of exposure to second-hand philosophy among the Western chattering classes. As for the points raised,

Most religions do not believe that life on Earth is inherently worthless and merely a preparation for another existence. In theory Christians, Buddhists, and Hindus do, but theory and practice are not always the same thing.

Belief that one is chosen others are reprobate may be silly, but it's seldom a disadvantage for those who believeit. Similarly, what would be the disadvantage in believing in reincarnation?

Of course, the whole question is spurious. What matters about your beliefs is whether they are true.

 

[Mock Turtle]

I'm not aware of any authenticated reports of societies with no belief in an afterlife — it's the default position. Disbelief is generally the result of exposure to second-hand philosophy among the Western chattering classes. As for the points raised,

Most religions do not believe that life on Earth is inherently worthless and merely a preparation for another existence. In theory Christians, Buddhists, and Hindus do, but theory and practice are not always the same thing.

Belief that one is chosen others are reprobate may be silly, but it's seldom a disadvantage for those who believeit. Similarly, what would be the disadvantage in believing in reincarnation?

Of course, the whole question is spurious. What matters about your beliefs is whether they are true.

Well, the good old - most people believe such so it must be true - hardly works for most things, and things have a habit of changing rather rapidly - not notice the last 100 years? Not believe any of the deficits?

What matters about your beliefs is whether they are true. So all can be true - or we just ignore those nasty other beliefs?

 

[Ayjaydee]

Well, that's a different issue than the one I was addressing with thread question.

I am actually a believer in Advaita philosophy (non-dualism = God and creation are not-two) for reasons too involved to get into in this thread about afterlife. So my perspective is probably different than yours. I see the universe as all a play/drama of Consciousness/God/Brahman.

Much different

 

[Ancient Soul]

Some of the issues:

* Suicides might be more common - because existence might be perceived as being far better in Heaven, or because some see it as fulfilling some duty (Suicide-bombers?), or the rewards are often made out to be more attractive (72 virgins?), etc.

* Living a life in preparation for some future life, rather than living as if this was the only existence and treasuring it as such.

* Waiting for some kind of apocalypse or future event, as predicted by some religious doctrine (The Endtimes).

* Believing in Hell, and perhaps the concept of evil, such that some will believe many will be destined for such - like atheists, for example.

* A belief in a 'chosen people', destined for some paradise, and perhaps the separation from others that such a view might bring.

* A belief that we are reincarnated into something else after death, often based on what we have done whilst being alive, or blaming a past existence for what we might have now.

Probably quite a few more, but are these enough to consider such beliefs as problematic and not very helpful?

1. If one commits suicide they will only be returned to the physical world until they learn all the spiritual lessons required to pass God's judgment and enter "Heaven".

2. Yes, that is a stupid waste of one's time on earth waiting for something that will never happen.

3. There is no such place as this mythical "hell". That is just part of the Christian FEAR mongering brainwashing system.

4. This "chosen people" is just another Christian myth designed to appeal to those with bloated egos so they join up with the church. But to enter what they call "Heaven" one has to WORK at learning their spiritual lessons and spiritually evolve enough to pass God's judgment and enter "Heaven".

5. That's pretty much it. Those who fail to learn their spiritual lessons and evolve enough to pass judgment, get returned to earth as many times as required until they do.

 

[Ancient Soul]

Some of the issues:

* Suicides might be more common - because existence might be perceived as being far better in Heaven, or because some see it as fulfilling some duty (Suicide-bombers?), or the rewards are often made out to be more attractive (72 virgins?), etc.

* Living a life in preparation for some future life, rather than living as if this was the only existence and treasuring it as such.

* Waiting for some kind of apocalypse or future event, as predicted by some religious doctrine (The Endtimes).

* Believing in Hell, and perhaps the concept of evil, such that some will believe many will be destined for such - like atheists, for example.

* A belief in a 'chosen people', destined for some paradise, and perhaps the separation from others that such a view might bring.

* A belief that we are reincarnated into something else after death, often based on what we have done whilst being alive, or blaming a past existence for what we might have now.

Probably quite a few more, but are these enough to consider such beliefs as problematic and not very helpful?

No.
Unless it can be demonstrated that:
A) the beliefs are false
B) they cause harm in sizeable numbers of people
C) they are not outweighed by the benefits of believing
D) the alternatives are better not worse

Of the ones mentioned:

The encouragement to suicide for heaven might be countered by the discouragement to suicide from hell or judgement, or by a duty to missionize to get others to heaven, or balanced against non-afterlife belief in annihilation which ends present suffering in combination the pessimistic nature of the non-afterlife view. Additionally, I see no real evidence that afterlife believers are more prone to suicide than non-believers, and I would actually suspect the opposite given religious prohibitions against self-killing.

Living life in preparation may not be a negative thing - if preparation includes encouragement to moral acts, or self-development or whatever. This also assumes that one cannot both treasure this life and prepare for an afterlife,which seems obviously false.

Belief in an apocalypse is not the same as belief in an afterlife - they are not the same thing.

Belief in hell may or may not be part of an afterlife view, and may or may not be harmful. This point needs expansion.

A belief in a chosen people is not an afterlife POV - it may or may not be connected.

Belief in reincarnation may or may not be part of an afterlife view, and may or may not be harmful. This point does not explain.

All very good points. However, I have one small objection to this one:

"Living life in preparation may not be a negative thing - if preparation includes encouragement to moral acts, or self-development or whatever."

If one does "good works" just because of anticipating some kind of "apocalypse or future "End Times"", that is no better than doing "good works" at gunpoint. Because they feel they HAVE to, or else. Whereas God will judge in favor to those who do "good works" because they WANT TO, out of empathy and compassion.

There is a BIG difference spiritually speaking.

 

[Ayjaydee]

I'm not aware of any authenticated reports of societies with no belief in an afterlife — it's the default position. Disbelief is generally the result of exposure to second-hand philosophy among the Western chattering classes. As for the points raised,

Most religions do not believe that life on Earth is inherently worthless and merely a preparation for another existence. In theory Christians, Buddhists, and Hindus do, but theory and practice are not always the same thing.

Belief that one is chosen others are reprobate may be silly, but it's seldom a disadvantage for those who believeit. Similarly, what would be the disadvantage in believing in reincarnation?











If , by afterlife, you mean another life for the soul or essence of the being existing in this one undergoing reincarnation then no, not all "religions" see it that way. Therevada Buddhists see other realms but the beings themselves that inhabit these realms are not recycled versions of beings from this realm. They liken it to the flame of a candle that was brought to life by the flame of another candle.

 

[MonkeyFire]

This is the prelife, if anything.

 

[Ancient Soul]

who was it that's said "you will not die" ?
'

Not me either.

Maybe you should consider a memory enhancement pill.

Just kidding.

 

[Deeje]

Some of the issues:

* Suicides might be more common - because existence might be perceived as being far better in Heaven, or because some see it as fulfilling some duty (Suicide-bombers?), or the rewards are often made out to be more attractive (72 virgins?), etc.

Suicide is already up there as one of the leading causes of preventable death....

Key facts

• Close to 800 000 people die due to suicide every year.
• For every suicide there are many more people who attempt suicide every year. A prior suicide attempt is the single most important risk factor for suicide in the general population.
• Suicide is the third leading cause of death in 15-19-year-olds.
• 79% of global suicides occur in low- and middle-income countries.
• Ingestion of pesticide, hanging and firearms are among the most common methods of suicide globally.

Suicide

* Living a life in preparation for some future life, rather than living as if this was the only existence and treasuring it as such.

Living life now is what we all have to do, but believing in a better life to come relieves a lot of stress if you have not achieved very much in this life. Say for example that you were born with some kind of health problem or deformity that made this life very difficult. Would not the promise of a better life to come alleviate some of the disappointments that a hindered life in this world would bring?

* Waiting for some kind of apocalypse or future event, as predicted by some religious doctrine (The Endtimes).

Its not the end...but a new beginning.....that is the focus. Who doesn't long for the end of something awful to be replaced by something wonderful?

* Believing in Hell, and perhaps the concept of evil, such that some will believe many will be destined for such - like atheists, for example.

More fool them. There is no hell in the Bible.....that idea is borrowed from paganism. Non-Christian religions are saturated with this hateful concept. What kind of a loving God would torture people forever as a punishment for a short lifetime of sin? Where is the justice in that?

* A belief in a 'chosen people', destined for some paradise, and perhaps the separation from others that such a view might bring.

If one has the right view, then sharing hope with those who have none, and are seeking it, might refresh them. Sometimes it is a healthy thing to separate from people who are toxic in their influence on you.

* A belief that we are reincarnated into something else after death, often based on what we have done whilst being alive, or blaming a past existence for what we might have now.

There is no reincarnation either in my beliefs. There is only life or death.....and by the decisions we make, we choose our own destiny. All responsibility for who and what we become as adults is ours to own. We can't blame anyone else.

Probably quite a few more, but are these enough to consider such beliefs as problematic and not very helpful?

It all depends on the way you look at things.....either the thornbush has roses....or the rosebush has thorns....