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Beliefs in an afterlife - the problems?

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
Some of the issues:

* Suicides might be more common - because existence might be perceived as being far better in Heaven, or because some see it as fulfilling some duty (Suicide-bombers?), or the rewards are often made out to be more attractive (72 virgins?), etc.

* Living a life in preparation for some future life, rather than living as if this was the only existence and treasuring it as such.

* Waiting for some kind of apocalypse or future event, as predicted by some religious doctrine (The Endtimes).

* Believing in Hell, and perhaps the concept of evil, such that some will believe many will be destined for such - like atheists, for example.

* A belief in a 'chosen people', destined for some paradise, and perhaps the separation from others that such a view might bring.

* A belief that we are reincarnated into something else after death, often based on what we have done whilst being alive, or blaming a past existence for what we might have now.

Probably quite a few more, but are these enough to consider such beliefs as problematic and not very helpful?
 
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Ayjaydee

Active Member
Some of the issues:

* Suicides might be more common - because existence might be perceived as being far better in Heaven, or because some see it as fulfilling some duty (Suicide-bombers?), or the rewards are often made out to be more attractive (72 virgins?), etc.

* Living a life in preparation for some future life, rather than living as if this was the only existence and treasuring it as such.

* Waiting for some kind of apocalypse or future event, as predicted by some religious doctrine (The Endtimes).

* Believing in Hell, and perhaps the concept of evil, such that some will believe many will be destined for such - like atheists, for example.

* A belief in a 'chosen people', destined for some paradise, and perhaps the separation from others that such a view might bring.

* A belief that we are reincarnated into something else after death, often based on what we have done whilst being alive, or blaming a past existence for what we might have now.

Probably quite a few more, but are these enough to consider such views as problematic and not very helpful?
They may be problematic but someone cant just decide to quit a belief just because it may be problematic
 

Galateasdream

Active Member
Probably quite a few more, but are these enough to consider such views as problematic and not very helpful?

No.
Unless it can be demonstrated that:
A) the beliefs are false
B) they cause harm in sizeable numbers of people
C) they are not outweighed by the benefits of believing
D) the alternatives are better not worse

Of the ones mentioned:

The encouragement to suicide for heaven might be countered by the discouragement to suicide from hell or judgement, or by a duty to missionize to get others to heaven, or balanced against non-afterlife belief in annihilation which ends present suffering in combination the pessimistic nature of the non-afterlife view. Additionally, I see no real evidence that afterlife believers are more prone to suicide than non-believers, and I would actually suspect the opposite given religious prohibitions against self-killing.

Living life in preparation may not be a negative thing - if preparation includes encouragement to moral acts, or self-development or whatever. This also assumes that one cannot both treasure this life and prepare for an afterlife,which seems obviously false.

Belief in an apocalypse is not the same as belief in an afterlife - they are not the same thing.

Belief in hell may or may not be part of an afterlife view, and may or may not be harmful. This point needs expansion.

A belief in a chosen people is not an afterlife POV - it may or may not be connected.

Belief in reincarnation may or may not be part of an afterlife view, and may or may not be harmful. This point does not explain.
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
No.
Unless it can be demonstrated that:
A) the beliefs are false
B) they cause harm in sizeable numbers of people
C) they are not outweighed by the benefits of believing
D) the alternatives are better not worse
They can't exactly be proven true either, so what I'm saying is what exactly do they contribute to life on Earth? How do we measure the harms, or the benefits of believing such? And how could we know about the alternatives? Some studies to weed out such beliefs as causative of anything?
Of the ones mentioned:

The encouragement to suicide for heaven might be countered by the discouragement to suicide from hell or judgement, or by a duty to missionize to get others to heaven, or balanced against non-afterlife belief in annihilation which ends present suffering in combination the pessimistic nature of the non-afterlife view. Additionally, I see no real evidence that afterlife believers are more prone to suicide than non-believers, and I would actually suspect the opposite given religious prohibitions against self-killing.
I suspect those younger are more susceptible to such, particularly if they have been brought up in a more religious environment. But I haven't seen any studies to suggest such.
Living life in preparation may not be a negative thing - if preparation includes encouragement to moral acts, or self-development or whatever. This also assumes that one cannot both treasure this life and prepare for an afterlife, which seems obviously false.
Yes, but one can live a decent life without such beliefs. What are the deficits in addition, that wouldn't be there if such beliefs didn't exist?
Belief in an apocalypse is not the same as belief in an afterlife - they are not the same thing.
Quite, but those believing in such usually believe that some will be saved.
Belief in hell may or may not be part of an afterlife view, and may or may not be harmful. This point needs expansion.
If some believe that many are destined for Hell (like atheists or perhaps of some other religion) then this might affect how they see them and/or treat them.
A belief in a chosen people is not an afterlife POV - it may or may not be connected.
But chosen for what?
Belief in reincarnation may or may not be part of an afterlife view, and may or may not be harmful. This point does not explain.
It's an afterlife of sorts, when death as an ending is the default non-religious position.
 
Some of the issues:

* Suicides might be more common - because existence might be perceived as being far better in Heaven, or because some see it as fulfilling some duty (Suicide-bombers?), or the rewards are often made out to be more attractive (72 virgins?), etc.

* Living a life in preparation for some future life, rather than living as if this was the only existence and treasuring it as such.

* Waiting for some kind of apocalypse or future event, as predicted by some religious doctrine (The Endtimes).

* Believing in Hell, and perhaps the concept of evil, such that some will believe many will be destined for such - like atheists, for example.

* A belief in a 'chosen people', destined for some paradise, and perhaps the separation from others that such a view might bring.

* A belief that we are reincarnated into something else after death, often based on what we have done whilst being alive, or blaming a past existence for what we might have now.

Probably quite a few more, but are these enough to consider such beliefs as problematic and not very helpful?

Many of these could also be argued the other way.

It might prevent suicides if that means you won't get into heaven.

Believing in heaven might give you real world benefits like a sense of purpose, better ability to cope with bereavement, etc.

Believing there is only one life doesn't mean you will use that knowledge to do good. It was used by Communists as a partial justification for their atrocities as they were freed from the constrains of 'false' religious ethics promoting the sanctity of human life, for example.

Overall, I wouldn't say it is either intrinsically good or bad. Like with most religious stuff, it's good when it encourages people to do good, and bad when it does the opposite.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
Probably quite a few more, but are these enough to consider such beliefs as problematic and not very helpful?

No, because the OP is extremely biased in a negative direction.
It mentions a number of possible problems and none of the possible benefits. In addition, it doesn't take into account the diversity of ideas cultures and peoples have about the afterlife.
 

Galateasdream

Active Member
what exactly do they contribute to life on Earth?

Psychological comfort and an incentive to morality.

How do we measure the harms, or the benefits of believing such?

I have zero idea. I'm not sure it would be possible, esp as they tend to come as a package with many other beliefs. Isolating what beliefs were doing what would be very difficult.

how could we know about the alternatives?

I assume the obvious alternative to believing in an afterlife is not believing in an afterlife.

one can live a decent life without such beliefs.

And one can live a decent life with such beliefs.

What are the deficits in addition, that wouldn't be there if such beliefs didn't exist?

Psuchological comfort and an incentive to morality.

this might affect how they see them and/or treat them.

Might indeed. But also might not.

But chosen for what?

Promised land? Could be anything.

Maybe a different way to approach this issue that might be more useful and practical, would be to simply start a thread asking people how their afterlife beliefs affect them, or how previously held afterlife beliefs affected them. I could much more easily tell of the positives and negatives of my specific beliefs in my own life than speculate about how all varying beliefs affect everyone.
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
Many of these could also be argued the other way.

It might prevent suicides if that means you won't get into heaven.

Yes, I can see why this could be so, but the suicide thing (not getting into Heaven) might not be such a barrier to the young, and apparently suicides in the young are increasing. Not that all perhaps are thinking of such when they do commit such acts - but one example:

Why Do People Kill Themselves? New Warning Signs

In 1993, a 6-year old girl living in Florida stepped in front of a train. She left a note saying that she "wanted to be with her mother" who recently died from a terminal illness.
Believing in heaven might give you real world benefits like a sense of purpose, better ability to cope with bereavement, etc.

Believing there is only one life doesn't mean you will use that knowledge to do good. It was used by Communists as a partial justification for their atrocities as they were freed from the constrains of 'false' religious ethics promoting the sanctity of human life, for example.

Overall, I wouldn't say it is either intrinsically good or bad. Like with most religious stuff, it's good when it encourages people to do good, and bad when it does the opposite.

Sense of purpose I suppose could be seen as either way, making the most of the one life or doing as much to cater for what one believed one needed to do, and the comfort of being with dead loved ones surely has to be one of the biggest carrots of religion.

The communists have a lot to answer for perhaps. But I agree that such concepts can be neither good nor bad, it's just that when they are devised a lot of baggage comes along too, and with so many conflicting beliefs they might not be that helpful.
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
No, because the OP is extremely biased in a negative direction. It mentions a number of possible problems and none of the possible benefits. In addition, it doesn't take into account the diversity of ideas cultures and peoples have about the afterlife.

What benefits if none of it is true?
 

Jeremiah Ames

Well-Known Member
Some of the issues:

* Suicides might be more common - because existence might be perceived as being far better in Heaven, or because some see it as fulfilling some duty (Suicide-bombers?), or the rewards are often made out to be more attractive (72 virgins?), etc.

* Living a life in preparation for some future life, rather than living as if this was the only existence and treasuring it as such.

* Waiting for some kind of apocalypse or future event, as predicted by some religious doctrine (The Endtimes).

* Believing in Hell, and perhaps the concept of evil, such that some will believe many will be destined for such - like atheists, for example.

* A belief in a 'chosen people', destined for some paradise, and perhaps the separation from others that such a view might bring.

* A belief that we are reincarnated into something else after death, often based on what we have done whilst being alive, or blaming a past existence for what we might have now.

Probably quite a few more, but are these enough to consider such beliefs as problematic and not very helpful?
I definitely believe in afterlife.
I can see your first item being the biggest problem, if it is a problem. But evil is done by evil people. Most evil (if not all) is not done by those people thinking of a true afterlife. If their thinking was good and true, they wouldn’t be doing evil.

Those who have a realistic concept of afterlife will likely be prepared, and also living this earthly life to the fullest.

The end times prophecies are hogwash, believed by people who think they are special and righteous in some way, and all others will get ‘what they deserve’ when the magical end time occurs.

Hell, is unlikely to be, what people imagine. Those who believe in hell, generally think they will be ‘going to’ heaven , and those ‘other’ people are going to hell. But they fail to see the hell they’re creating in their life here on earth.

The idea of a ‘chosen’ people is another badly misunderstood concept, especially in evangelical Christianity.

Cant comment on reincarnation.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
Some of the issues:

* Suicides might be more common - because existence might be perceived as being far better in Heaven, or because some see it as fulfilling some duty (Suicide-bombers?), or the rewards are often made out to be more attractive (72 virgins?), etc.

* Living a life in preparation for some future life, rather than living as if this was the only existence and treasuring it as such.

* Waiting for some kind of apocalypse or future event, as predicted by some religious doctrine (The Endtimes).

* Believing in Hell, and perhaps the concept of evil, such that some will believe many will be destined for such - like atheists, for example.

* A belief in a 'chosen people', destined for some paradise, and perhaps the separation from others that such a view might bring.

* A belief that we are reincarnated into something else after death, often based on what we have done whilst being alive, or blaming a past existence for what we might have now.

Probably quite a few more, but are these enough to consider such beliefs as problematic and not very helpful?
I feel that in an intelligent modern afterlife understanding none of the above problems exist. A proper understanding actually makes life and this universe more glorious, rich and positive for all!

That list reads to me like someone trying to pin bad thinking as part and parcel of belief in the afterlife.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
What benefits if none of it is true?

Why would the objective truth of it matter?

It is well-established that when it comes to human behavior, we behave based on individual perceptions which are neither objective nor impartial.
That is to say, the story and how it is told is overwhelmingly more important than the facts. This has been the case throughout human history, and remains so today. Are you really unable to come up with an extensive list of benefits of afterlife convictions?
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
I feel that in an intelligent modern afterlife understanding none of the above problems exist. A proper understanding actually makes life and this universe more glorious, rich and positive for all!

That list reads to me like someone trying to pin bad thinking as part and parcel of belief in the afterlife.

I'm just wondering how we might be without such concepts - better or worse off? Being non-religious I am a bit biased here of course.
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
Why would the objective truth of it matter?

It is well-established that when it comes to human behavior, we behave based on individual perceptions which are neither objective nor impartial.
That is to say, the story and how it is told is overwhelmingly more important than the facts. This has been the case throughout human history, and remains so today. Are you really unable to come up with an extensive list of benefits of afterlife convictions?

Probably not, but you are welcome to.
 

Ayjaydee

Active Member
I feel that in an intelligent modern afterlife understanding none of the above problems exist. A proper understanding actually makes life and this universe more glorious, rich and positive for all!

That list reads to me like someone trying to pin bad thinking as part and parcel of belief in the afterlife.
I must substitute belief for understanding
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
I'm just wondering how we might be without such concepts - better or worse off? Being non-religious I am a bit biased here of course.
Well, I would say 'worse off'. The universe would seem a more pointless and depressing thing to me.
 
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