Are we all created equal?

[Kenny]

Apparently it is that simple. Should the Constitution address the inequality of individuals? Does the inequality of individuals make it imposible to equally exercise those rights in the same social system?

I think only when something is not addressed to make us equal. For an example, women should have equal right to vote and it needed to be addressed. Now, if someone has more money than I, no.

Having people judged by the color of their skin should be addressed. But whether someone has one car and someone else has three... no.

Making an employment based on gender and not capacity should be addressed. Base employment on gender regardless of capacity... no . IMO

 

[Stevicus]

In the Declaration of Independence, Thomas Jefferson wrote, “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, ...”.

Was Thomas Jefferson correct in stating that we are all created equal? Equal in what way? If not, should we rethink the Constitution?

As others have said, it really means equal before the law. However, in context, there were those back in those times who thought that people were born with "royal blood" or that there were certain ranks in society based on what family you were born into. There was a sharp reaction against monachism and that form of government, and the idea that mere "commoners" could be considered equal to men of breeding and substance was pretty radical for its time.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

In the Declaration of Independence, Thomas Jefferson wrote, “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, ...”.

Was Thomas Jefferson correct in stating that we are all created equal? Equal in what way? If not, should we rethink the Constitution?

No, we are not equal or created equal, but I think the intention there was that all (rich free men) are owed by the government fair treatment without distinguishing them based on certain factors or whatever, like a King and a King's family and relatives being treated as higher or better or with different rules and rights and laws and penalties applied to them due to their royal status as compared to that of the other rich men who might not be part of that circle or family. I think that is what the idea was generally, but the truth of the matter is, no one is born equal, no one is born in equal conditions to everyone else or practically anyone else, everyone is different, with different abilities and handicaps, but the legal system is supposed to treat most people as the same and with the same laws and rules applying to them except for various contexts or circumstances which might change the way penalties are applied to them or whatever (like if they are considered not responsible for themselves due to mental defects or whatever).

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Would you say that in the United States, for example, tax breaks for the number of children you have, or a tax break for owning a home and having a mortgage treats everyone equally? Is there a government that treats everyone equally?

I cannot say all governments are perfect. The tax laws allow certain deductions for certain reasons. Is this fair? Maybe not. But as long as the laws are applied equally and fairly then that is as close as you can get to equal treatment.

 

[bobhikes]

In the Declaration of Independence, Thomas Jefferson wrote, “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, ...”.

Was Thomas Jefferson correct in stating that we are all created equal? Equal in what way? If not, should we rethink the Constitution?

Yes, all men are created equal. Its what happens after the creation part that the constitution gets vague.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

In the Declaration of Independence, Thomas Jefferson wrote, “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, ...”.

Was Thomas Jefferson correct in stating that we are all created equal? Equal in what way? If not, should we rethink the Constitution?

Let me begin by asking if Jefferson really believed that, why did he own slaves? In fact, during his lifetime, he owned about 600 human beings.

That may not be "self-evident," but it is a truth.

As always, I question what people say they believe when I see that their behaviours deny those beliefs categorically.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Yes, all men are created equal. Its what happens after the creation part that the constitution gets vague.

Well, in fact, we aren't created at all, we're born.

As a humanist, I contend that we are all born with inherently equal worth and value as persons, and ought to be treated as such. I do not suppose that means that we should all expect the same outcomes, or even -- in the world that we can easily perceive around us -- that we can all even expect to be treated fairly.

I wish it were otherwise, but it ain't.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

Let me begin by asking if Jefferson really believed that, why did he own slaves? In fact, during his lifetime, he owned about 600 human beings.

That may not be "self-evident," but it is a truth.

As always, I question what people say they believe when I see that their behaviours deny those beliefs categorically.

Maybe he thought slaves were not men, but manimals.

 

[osgart]

I like to think the measure of people is in their compassion and love. I think most people can be equal in this way if they so choose.

It is very good that we have equality of law as law in our land. That way people from anywhere at anytime can rise up and do incredible things.

 

[Estro Felino]

In another thread about social justice and the US I was underlining that the USA were founded upon inequality. Since from the very beginning very powerful dynasties could get to possess the 90% of lands and resources.
We are speaking of a country with infinite spaces, unlike Europe where big populations are squeezed into small countries...think of England.

Even after the civil war, this didn't change.

 

[oldbadger]

In the Declaration of Independence, Thomas Jefferson wrote, “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, ...”.

Was Thomas Jefferson correct in stating that we are all created equal? Equal in what way? If not, should we rethink the Constitution?

I'm a Brit, Mike, so I can only speak in-general about 'people'.

People are born as unequal as Nature will allow.
In physique, strength, intellect, health, wealth, freedom or opportunity we are all as individual as our fingerprints.

There is no equality. Our communities need to strive to balance everything as far as possible.

We hope.......

 

[Estro Felino]

I'm a Brit, Mike, so I can only speak in-general about 'people'.

People are born as unequal as Nature will allow.
In physique, strength, intellect, health, wealth, freedom or opportunity we are all as individual as our fingerprints.

There is no equality. Our communities need to strive to balance everything as far as possible.

We hope.......

Yes...that is why we must distinguish horizontal equality from Vertical equality.
Horizontal equality is when everyone is treated equally by the State, without distinction of race, gender, religion, etc...
Vertical equality is when the State gives privileges to minorities who are "unequal" because they start with a disadvantaged condition. Think of people with disabilities. They have more difficulties finding a job than the majority of people.
So it is right the State helps them, finding them a job sooner than others.

I guess this is how a secular state should work.

 

[oldbadger]

Yes...that is why we must distinguish horizontal equality from Vertical equality.
Horizontal equality is when everyone is treated equally by the State, without distinction of race, gender, religion, etc...
Vertical equality is when the State gives privileges to minorities who are "unequal" because they start with a disadvantaged condition. Think of people with disabilities. They have more difficulties finding a job than the majority of people.
So it is right the State helps them finding them a job sooner than others.

I guess this is how a secular state should work.

I agree....
And disability can be mental, intellectual or physical.

We need to level the field as far as safety, security and provision of services go all go.....

 

[stvdv]

In the Declaration of Independence, Thomas Jefferson wrote, “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, ...”.

That's a Wise quote

He must have heard of the "Who Am I" question

 

[stvdv]

Was Thomas Jefferson correct in stating that we are all created equal? Equal in what way? If not, should we rethink the Constitution?

Yes. But baby steps: start with "rethink voting for Trump being President"

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

In the Declaration of Independence, Thomas Jefferson wrote, “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, ...”.

Was Thomas Jefferson correct in stating that we are all created equal? Equal in what way? If not, should we rethink the Constitution?

Different starting points, experiences, outlooks, skills, roles, callings, strengths, weaknesses, wants.
Equal worth (is not, but ought to be). All life lessons - however different - are of equal importance and worth to the whole.

Humbly
Hermit

 

[MikeF]

I agree....
And disability can be mental, intellectual or physical.

We need to level the field as far as safety, security and provision of services go all go.....

I think that there is a lot of consensus that we are not equal as individuals, that our potential can be limited both physically and situationally. There is also some agreement that this should be recognized and accounted for in some way.
The hard part is in figuring out what a more equitable society means. I'm not sure there is a general expectation that everyone in society should be economically equivalent, but the idea of there being a limit on a wealth gap in society seems to be growing.
If economic prosperity correlates to potential, should we consider granting a minimum level of economic well-being to everyone to compensate for unequal potential? And how do we factor in effort? Some with equivalent potential may work harder to achieve their "Happiness", as Jefferson describes it. Should this be considered when addressing wealth disparity?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

In the Declaration of Independence, Thomas Jefferson wrote, “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, ...”.

Was Thomas Jefferson correct in stating that we are all created equal? Equal in what way? If not, should we rethink the Constitution?

Nope. Enlightenment philosophy is founded on unproven assumptions. It's like a secularized version of Christianity, stripped of the miraculous and such but holding to the basic ethical and teleological assumptions.

Simply by observing nature, one does not get the impression that humans are equal or even "created".

 

[bobhikes]

Well, in fact, we aren't created at all, we're born.

As a humanist, I contend that we are all born with inherently equal worth and value as persons, and ought to be treated as such. I do not suppose that means that we should all expect the same outcomes, or even -- in the world that we can easily perceive around us -- that we can all even expect to be treated fairly.

I wish it were otherwise, but it ain't.

One egg, meets one Y sperm and then the creation process of a man starts. I am not sure how long it lasts but you are definitely not a man until multiple divisions happen.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Maybe he thought slaves were not men, but manimals.

Maybe....except that Jefferson himself wrote that slavery is evil! But he tried to justify his ownership through his own underlying racism, writing that "'freeing slaves is like abandoning children." And yet again, he also freed a number of his own slaves.

No, he knew. But he also had that very human knack for cognitive dissonance not getting in the way.