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Are we all created equal?

MikeF

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
In the Declaration of Independence, Thomas Jefferson wrote, “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, ...”.

Was Thomas Jefferson correct in stating that we are all created equal? Equal in what way? If not, should we rethink the Constitution?
 

MikeF

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
All people must be treated equally under the law. In other matters, people are different in many ways. It is not the job of the government to make sure that everyone is exactly like everyone else. But the government must treat everyone as being equal in all legal matters.
Would you say that in the United States, for example, tax breaks for the number of children you have, or a tax break for owning a home and having a mortgage treats everyone equally? Is there a government that treats everyone equally?
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
In the Declaration of Independence, Thomas Jefferson wrote, “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, ...”.

Was Thomas Jefferson correct in stating that we are all created equal? Equal in what way? If not, should we rethink the Constitution?
Yeah, unless you are black. Jefferson conveniently overlooked that.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Getting on a theological soap box: we are all created equal. We all equally have souls. Of course our bodies are not equal, our brains are not equal and so forth. But the essence of all of us is the same.

The 'created equal' statement was aspirational. It is a statement of belief and a statement that the country would move in the direction of equality.

We're still at it. Slavery is outlawed. Women have the vote as does all classes of people in spite of the right's voter suppression tactics. But the journey is far from finished.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
In the Declaration of Independence, Thomas Jefferson wrote, “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, ...”.

Was Thomas Jefferson correct in stating that we are all created equal? Equal in what way? If not, should we rethink the Constitution?
People as human beings are or ought to be regarded as equal on those terms.

However people are not equal when it comes to matters of intelligence, discernment, foresight, and common sense among other traits.
 

PoetPhilosopher

Veteran Member
People as human beings are or ought to be regarded as equal on those terms.

However people are not equal when it comes to matters of intelligence, discernment, foresight, and common sense among other traits.

You mentioned several things involving the brain / cognitive abilities in your last paragraph. But I'd say there's a bit more. I can't fully explain all it entails, but I see beauty in appearance as also something that provides an evolutional advantage.
 

Bird123

Well-Known Member
In the Declaration of Independence, Thomas Jefferson wrote, “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, ...”.

Was Thomas Jefferson correct in stating that we are all created equal? Equal in what way? If not, should we rethink the Constitution?


All men are created equal. On the other hand, that does not mean everyone will treat people that way. Still, when creating, it's important to have a good foundation, so that those who wander have a place to come back to in order to find their way again. Jefferson did that.

Diversity is a Great strength. On the other hand, there is sometimes a struggle to work out the differences.

What is the old saying? The USA is a great melting pot of diversity. People from every part of the world join in to help in the Discovering of the total picture. Let's keep coming together regardless of the growing pains experienced along the way. Let's each point to the most intelligent solutions. In time, Wisdom will abound.

Hey! That means you!!! All the pieces of the puzzle are needed regardless of how one might think their piece does not matter. Share that which is Special about you with the world. That's why we are here.

It doesn't matter what others do. It's what you choose to do that counts!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!
 

robocop (actually)

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
In the Declaration of Independence, Thomas Jefferson wrote, “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, ...”.

Was Thomas Jefferson correct in stating that we are all created equal? Equal in what way? If not, should we rethink the Constitution?
"God doesn't love any race less than any other," the president of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
 

MikeF

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Getting on a theological soap box: we are all created equal. We all equally have souls. Of course our bodies are not equal, our brains are not equal and so forth. But the essence of all of us is the same.

The 'created equal' statement was aspirational. It is a statement of belief and a statement that the country would move in the direction of equality.

We're still at it. Slavery is outlawed. Women have the vote as does all classes of people in spite of the right's voter suppression tactics. But the journey is far from finished.
I think Jefferson intended it to be declarative statement rather than aspirational. Granted, the set of people to which he was referring was probably not all inclusive. I imagine his thought was, of those that have the right to form a common government, those with that right are to be treated euitably.
However, it seems to be the case that we are not all born equal. We are born with different physical and cognitive abilities, the environment in which we grow and develop varies dramatically. Should government take these differences into account? Should the Declaration have said "All human beings are created differently, and therefore..."?
Or is it simply a lottery, and to the lucky and fortunate go the spoils?
 

Salty Booger

Royal Crown Cola (RC)
Was Thomas Jefferson correct in stating that we are all created equal? Equal in what way? If not, should we rethink the Constitution?
All rights should be enjoyed by all as defined in The Bill of Rights. As far as being created equal, depends on how you view other people: Short, Tall, Smart, Dumb, Fat, Thin, Healthy, Unhealthy, Rich, Poor, etc.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
In the Declaration of Independence, Thomas Jefferson wrote, “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, ...”.

Was Thomas Jefferson correct in stating that we are all created equal? Equal in what way? If not, should we rethink the Constitution?
In that time... equal in seeking life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Not that it was the way it was suppose to be, but we were equal in the right to do so. Over time equal liberty became a reality. Happiness is a decision that each person can make for themselves. IMO

Surely we can find exceptions to this but it doesn't change the over-riding principle
 

ecco

Veteran Member
In the Declaration of Independence, Thomas Jefferson wrote, “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, ...”.

Was Thomas Jefferson correct in stating that we are all created equal?
It was nothing more than a lofty hypocritical ideal.

Thomas Jefferson, the third president of the United States, owned more than 600 African-American slaves throughout his adult life.
 

MikeF

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
In that time... equal in seeking life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Not that it was the way it was suppose to be, but we were equal in the right to do so. Over time equal liberty became a reality. Happiness is a decision that each person can make for themselves. IMO

Surely we can find exceptions to this but it doesn't change the over-riding principle
I would like to explore this idea of equality to pursue happiness. Obviously(or perhaps not) each individual will have their own idea of what the endgame of pursuing happiness might be, but if we use the analogy of taking a journey, is the pursuit equal if the starting point is not the same, or some have to carry different weight loads, and yet others might get a bicycle or a car to help them on their way? If the journey to happiness is not equal for everyone, should that be addressed in some way?
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Was Thomas Jefferson correct in stating that we are all created equal? Equal in what way? If not, should we rethink the Constitution?
Obviously not. So, for example, some are more capable of discerning Jefferson's intent than others.

The quote in question reads:

“We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness….”​

Let's give Jefferson the benefit of the doubt and assume that he was not a moron, and that he was perfectly aware that, for example, some are created larger, or heavier, or ... the list is near endless. So the question becomes: What might he have had in mind?

Perhaps context would help. So, what about:

“We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, [in] that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness….”​

Wow! Could it really be that simple?
 
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MikeF

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Obviously not. So, for example, some are more capable of discerning Jefferson's intent than others.

The quote in question reads:

“We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness….”​

Let's give Jefferson the benefit of the doubt and assume that he was not a moron, and that he was perfectly aware that, for example, some are created larger, or heavier, or ... the list is near endless. So the question becomes: What might he have had in mind?

Perhaps context would help. So, what about:

“We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, [in] that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness….”​

Wow! Could it really be that simple?
Apparently it is that simple. Should the Constitution address the inequality of individuals? Does the inequality of individuals make it imposible to equally exercise those rights in the same social system?
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
I would like to explore this idea of equality to pursue happiness. Obviously(or perhaps not) each individual will have their own idea of what the endgame of pursuing happiness might be, but if we use the analogy of taking a journey, is the pursuit equal if the starting point is not the same, or some have to carry different weight loads, and yet others might get a bicycle or a car to help them on their way? If the journey to happiness is not equal for everyone, should that be addressed in some way?

I think the issue is "pursue". Whether we get there or not depends on the person... for an example:

My wife and I started with a ratan rug, a mattress, a snowy black and white TV and an aluminum set of pots and pans... but we were happy. I was happy when I walked to work, I was happy when I upgraded to a bike and certainly and happy now that I am in a car.

Now we have a home and all the trimmings and we are still happy.

I have been in the mud huts of Honduras and still found happy people and been in the homes of people that rich and found unhappiness.

So is happiness or unhappiness not a product what is around us but rather what is inside us?
 
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