15 dollar an hour minimum wage hike....... oh oh..

[sun rise]

Still they're trying, right?

Even what's left of the Republican party is proposing a higher minimum wage. Democrats should take 1/2 a loaf.

Ugh. Meanwhile I make $11/hour at a union job but Target and Best Buy workers have a $15 minimum wage. Wtf is the union good for? I would like to know what they're using my union dues for.

Inequities in the US's capitalist system is everywhere. Your sucky situation is one example.

I'm sure it will. Just like last year, and the year before that.

I hope not.

A standard minimum across the country is a bad idea.
What will be extremely low in SF CA or NYC NY,
would be a job killer in Dingus Corners PA.
It makes as much sense as one size fits all undies.

True that there's a real minimum that should apply everywhere. Looking at the minimum inflation adjusted is illuminating:

What incentive is there for people to get an education if they can make that much money without a college degree?

$15000 a year is way way under what someone with a college degree makes. Even a recent college graduate makes more than the minimum Recent College Graduate Annual Salary in Oakland, CA ($34,606 Avg | Feb 2021) - ZipRecruiter

 

[Revoltingest]

True that there's a real minimum that should apply everywhere. Looking at the minimum inflation adjusted is illuminating:

The same minimum everywhere makes no sense.
The cost of living varies widely.

 

[Valjean]

You can apply this approach to just about any political measure designed to benefit the populace.

And isn't this why we originally developed political organization in the first place, for our own personal benefit through collective coöperation.
I don't think enriching a small coterie of oligarchs at the expense of the people was part of the plan.

 

[ecco]

What incentive is there for people to get an education if they can make that much money without a college degree?

You think $15/hr is "that much money"? Really? $600/week? $31,200 per year?

An engineering degree will get double of that in the first year. Ditto nurses with a BSN. After that, the salaries go up much more quickly and much higher than for those without a degree.

According to U.S. News, the average mathematician made $103,010 in 2017. With a little bit of on-the-job experience, you could easily make as much as $130,000 per year in your mathematician career.
​

Decent Tradespeople like plumbers make $50,000 annually. Ditto cops.

Yet you, and others, think $15/ hr is outrageous.

 

[Valjean]

I used to think that but I changed my mind.

People with more money in their pocket spend.

That helps the economy and business when people spend that money when they walk in the door.

Exactly.
The rich tend to hoard their wealth -- in banks, boats, property, &c. They don't spend proportionately to drive the economy. The poor quickly spend 100% of their paychecks and bolster local businesses.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The same minimum everywhere makes no sense.
The cost of living varies widely.

True, And $15.00 an hour may be overly optimistic. I do not think that anyone has proposed that fifteen dollars an hour has to be the national minimum wage everywhere. There already areas with minimum wages higher than that. It was merely an attempt to bring the minimum wage into the 21'st century.

 

[Valjean]

What's the goal of a min wage?
I thought it was a livable wage.
But what's livable one place is a pittance in another.

It hasn't kept up with the real cost-of-living. Inflation has been allowed to slowly eat away at it. Fifty years ago you could afford a decent, one bedroom apartment or put yourself through college on a minimum wage.
I know I did.

 

[Trailblazer]

You think $15/hr is "that much money"? Really? $600/week? $31,200 per year?

An engineering degree will get double of that in the first year. Ditto nurses with a BSN. After that, the salaries go up much more quickly and much higher than for those without a degree.

According to U.S. News, the average mathematician made $103,010 in 2017. With a little bit of on-the-job experience, you could easily make as much as $130,000 per year in your mathematician career.
​

Decent Tradespeople like plumbers make $50,000 annually. Ditto cops.

Yet you, and others, think $15/ hr is outrageous.

I think you are overestimating how much college grads make but even though they make more money than minimum wage workers they put forth the money time and effort so they should earn more than a high school graduate makes, unless that person learned a trade like plumbing or electrician or roofing, or unless they put their lives on the line like policemen.

 

[Quetzal]

What resentment??? My resentment there is towards my crappy, corrupt union and the psychopathic corporation it's in cahoots with.

Time for a new job!

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Time for a new job!

Easier said than done. I don't need new stressors in my life.

 

[esmith]

Well maybe some of you should read what the CBO had to say about it.
$15 Minimum Wage Would Reduce Poverty But Cost Jobs, CBO Says.
Government report says $15 minimum wage would cost 1.4 million jobs

 

[Valjean]

Why should people who might have not even graduated from high school and never went to college automatically make $20 an hour? Why should they even make $15? Some college graduates don't even make that much and they might have had to take out student loans they have to pay back

. Education should not be a capitalist enterprise. State colleges were originally designed to be tuition free for in-state residents. You used to be able to work your way through college with a Summer job.

What incentive is there for people to get an education if they can make that much money without a college degree?

It's not that much money.
In most places $15./h will barely keep you from living in a tent.
Should poverty be a tool to feed the for-profit, higher education business? The poor work hard, and work long hours, to support the prosperity of the upper classes. Why should they not be paid a living wage? Why should a businessman, banker or technician have a higher status than the workers who support their lifestyles?

Many people aren't suited for college, they don't have the temperament for it, and many people prefer to work with their hands. Many simply can't afford college. They don't have the leisure to take time off for a degree.

We need the working class. I daresay wiping out the intellectual class would have less deleterious impact than wiping out the working class.

 

[Quetzal]

Well maybe some of you should read what the CBO had to say about it.
$15 Minimum Wage Would Reduce Poverty But Cost Jobs, CBO Says.
Government report says $15 minimum wage would cost 1.4 million jobs

I support a gradual increase over 3-5 years if that is what it would take to make it easier.

 

[Valjean]

The minimum wage should be $15 as a minimum. With a 3-5 year gradual increase until $15 is reached.
People who currently make $15 and are angry they're about to be paid McDonald's wages. Well, you're finally realizing that you were underpaid to begin with.

Yet some countries, poorer than the US, can afford to pay McDonald's workers $20./h -- with free higher education, healthcare, paid vacations and a robust social safety net.

 

[Valjean]

True, And $15.00 an hour may be overly optimistic. I do not think that anyone has proposed that fifteen dollars an hour has to be the national minimum wage everywhere. There already areas with minimum wages higher than that. It was merely an attempt to bring the minimum wage into the 21'st century.

Yes. Taxi drivers, waiters and store clerks in Silicon Valley are living in tents.

 

[Regiomontanus]

Let's set aside the unconstitutionality of the fed gov
regulating wages.
A standard minimum across the country is a bad idea.
What will be extremely low in SF CA or NYC NY,
would be a job killer in Dingus Corners PA.
It makes as much sense as one size fits all undies.

There is much to this. A mom & pop operation in rural PA (very inexpensive to live here) who might need to hire a person or two to help out would likely find $15 prohibitively high.

 

[tytlyf]

Well maybe some of you should read what the CBO had to say about it.
$15 Minimum Wage Would Reduce Poverty But Cost Jobs, CBO Says.
Government report says $15 minimum wage would cost 1.4 million jobs

Nothing is set in stone.
The positives far-outweigh the negatives

 

[tytlyf]

Yet some countries, poorer than the US, can afford to pay McDonald's workers $20./h -- with free higher education, healthcare, paid vacations and a robust social safety net.

Our tax dollars go to the MIC corporations, Big Oil, etc corporate welfare. Lot's of waste. Half the country supports corporations over American workers.
I don't vote Republican because I'm in the middle class

 

[Trailblazer]

. Education should not be a capitalist enterprise. State colleges were originally designed to be tuition free for in-state residents. You used to be able to work your way through college with a Summer job.

It should still be like that. The government should make not only 2 year colleges but also 4 year colleges tuition free for in-state residents.

It's not that much money.
In most places $15./h will barely keep you from living in a tent.
Should poverty be a tool to feed the for-profit, higher education business? The poor work hard, and work long hours, to support the prosperity of the upper classes. Why should they not be paid a living wage? Why should a businessman, banker or technician have a higher status than the workers who support their lifestyles?

Everyone should make a living wage, I just don't know what that is as I am pretty behind on these things.
Those people who took the time and money to go to college or learn a trade should make more money because that is only fair. People who started their own business and work hard to keep it going deserve to make whatever they make even if they have no college degree.

Many people aren't suited for college, they don't have the temperament for it, and many people prefer to work with their hands. Many simply can't afford college. They don't have the leisure to take time off for a degree.

That is true, not everyone is suited for college but anyone can learn a trade.
When I first went to college I had money from my father's social security since he died when I was 12, and I also had money from an inheritance from my aunt, so I did not have to work during college, but when I went to my first grad school I had to work my way through... Then when I went back to grad school many years later for a degree in a different field, I worked full time that entire time. In addition to that I had to go back to school for a GIS certificate in order to get a job back in my original field when I lost my job owing to budget cuts.

Because I had no children I had no family to support, so I could do what I did. However, I had to pay for college and give up all my free time for about 15 years of my life. Why should my tax dollars go to support people who choose to have children and cannot afford to support them? In my old age I won't have any children to help me like they will so I need the money to support myself. My husband is 10 years older than I am so I will probably be all alone eventually unless I remarry.

We need the working class. I daresay wiping out the intellectual class would have less deleterious impact than wiping out the working class.

We need both classes. Where would we be without educated people, scientists, doctors, teachers and attorneys? Without the scientists that developed the Covid-19 vaccines this pandemic would have continued to spiral out of control until it fizzled out and huge numbers of people would have died.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Let's set aside the unconstitutionality of the fed gov
regulating wages.
A standard minimum across the country is a bad idea.
What will be extremely low in SF CA or NYC NY,
would be a job killer in Dingus Corners PA.
It makes as much sense as one size fits all undies.

Some agreement there, but still, I think some of the arguments against a liveable wage (usually that it will cost n-number of low-paying jobs and increase unemployment) are pretty easy to argue against. After all, take the case of your local McDonalds -- put those low-paying workers out on the street, and they'll no longer be able to afford the product: and they are among the principle consumers of that very product.

And really, though too many people like to tout the presumed "truth" that wages are the biggest expense -- that isn't really true for a lot of things, is it? I mean, most of the cost of a Big Mac is the product itself -- and the transportation that got it to market, and the cost of the restaurant, and heating the oil for the fries, and the parking lot...and on and on and on. So pay the worker who hands out 300 of these things an hour $5 bucks more an hour, that comes $0.06 per burger. That wouldn't be hard to build into the price of the thing.