* sigh* Just Another Day In Heaven

[Deeje]

Thanks for that. Nicely laid out website. Don't have time to go through it in depth. Would you quickly outline the key differences betweem JWs and mainstream Christianity or direct me to the part of the website that explains it if you don't mind.

Here you go..... Jehovah’s Witnesses | Beliefs and FAQs | JW.ORG

It is excellent that you have found a faith that sustains and nourishes you spiritually. That's what its all about. I have a patient who was a sex worker who has found some assistance through becoming a JW.

I was a Christian too but like you found fulfillment elsewhere. Been a Baha'i for 25+ years
The Bahá’í Faith - The website of the worldwide Bahá’í community

http://www.bahai.org/

It seems like a very peaceful religion. Isn't it closer to Islam though? I must do some more research. Thanks for the link.

Thats right, I'm a GP. The website makes a compelling case for using transfusion a lot less than we do.

The fact that this video was posted on a Government website adds weight to the argument I think. To us though, we are just following a Biblical directive on the sanctity of blood....the benefits naturally follow if they are from God.

I have no problem with people of Faith communities going door to door as long as they are respectful of the people they talk to which in my experience the JWs have been.

We try to be as respectful as Jesus was. We are just messengers, so we follow Jesus direction when we meet with opposition. (Matthew 10:11-15) You can't force belief on anyone...it has to be their choice, and informed choice is the only one worth making. We simply ask them to consider the information before making their decisions. Look what happened to the Jews who believed what the Pharisees said about Jesus! They lost their place in God's purpose and to this day have never regained it. (Matthew 23:37-39)

I'm unable to see any justification for this belief either rationally or in scripture and it certainly contradicts what I believe in as a Baha'i. I'd be interested to here you persuade me otherwise.

If one is raised to believe that this life is some sort of temporary training ground for heaven, then I can see why the thought of NOT going to heaven would not sit well. This is especially so when some are chosen for that role and others are not. Just like Jesus choosing some as his apostles, others not. The Revelation reveals that the "New Jerusalem" is built on the foundation of the twelve apostles. Should that make others jealous? Something is wrong with anyone who thinks so. Feelings of envy and unfairness can cloud their judgment.....but in reality, if it is God who chooses Christ's "joint-heirs" then that has nothing to do with us. We all get to enjoy the benefits of the kingdom, regardless of weather we look forward to a heavenly reward or an earthly one. We will all have meaningful work to do no matter where we end up, so there are no feelings of envy among Jehovah's people. We rejoice with our anointed brothers and look forward to their rulership. (Revelation 21:2-4)

With the evil-doer who died alongside Jesus, he asked to be remembered when Jesus got into his kingdom and Jesus promised that he would be "with" him in "Paradise"...not heaven. The first paradise was here on earth and this is where that man will be resurrected...just like Lazarus was. (John 11:11-14) Jesus did not go to heaven that day, but stayed on earth for 40 days after his resurrection to strengthen his disciples before he returned to heaven.

Thanks for that. Baha'is would see the terrifying beast as militant Islam rather than the Roman empire. Ever considered why it so different from the others, features in a prophetic book 'after' the death of Jesus, and Islam a religion of 25% of the worlds population isn't mentioned anywhere? It's because it is mentioned

We believe that "Babylon the great" is the world empire of false worship, set up by the devil to gain worship for himself by default. That would include all religions who teach doctrines that originated in Babylon (most of which are not mentioned in the Bible). All have beliefs in common. Multiple gods or trinities of gods...belief in an immortal soul....a heaven of bliss for the righteous, as an opposite destination to a hell of fiery torture for the wicked. We are told to "get out of" that unfaithful "city", portrayed as a prostitute in bed with the kings of the earth. (Revelation 18:4-5; James 4:4)

There are also the "King of the North" and "the King of the South" mentioned in Daniel as having one final devastating confrontation, so it will be interesting to see how the final days pan out. (Daniel 11:40-45-12:4) Prophesy can only be fully discerned after it has been fulfilled. We believe that the "King of the South" is the Anglo-American dual world power....but we do not know who will fill the final role of the King of the North.......yet. Interesting times indeed.....

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Thank you for your response. I'm trying to better understand your Christian Faith.
Didn't He have just one physical body or was he like a spirit during His time on earth? Or perhaps you mean a body and a soul like the rest of us and his soul ascended to heaven. Then there would be no rational contradiction with Jesus' body ascending to heaven. So His Spirit or Soul ascends to heaven in the unseen heavenly realm (not in the sky) and His body remains on earth. His resurrection then becomes spiritual and not physical. That would make more sense to me.
Wouldn't that make Adam greater than Jesus? If Jesus didn't have a father but a mother, and Adam had neither a mother or a father, an greatness is a measure of miraculous signs then Adam would be greater! Or perhaps the story of Adm and Eve is a symbolic one filled with hidden intrinsic spiritual meanings not to be taken literally. Perhaps God was the father of Jesus in a spiritual not physical sense. Then Christ's greatness can be explained by His Divine attributes rather than the Divine mystery of His virgin birth.
What do you think? Is that plausable or is your way the only way of understanding Christianity.

Before Jesus' death he had only one physical body while on Earth.
Before coming to Earth Jesus had only one spirit body.
God transferred Jesus' spirit life to the womb of Mary.
God was the father (life giver) of both Adam and Jesus - Luke 3:38 B

As far as a soul, that is a whole other topic or subject:
In a nut shell, when the Jews began mixing with the Greeks they adopted their theories or philosophies about an immortal death-proof soul. In Scripture the soul is mortal. Adam was mortal. At death mortal Adam simply ' returned ' to the dust of the ground from which Adam came - Genesis 2:7; Genesis 3:19 . To me, a person can Not ' return ' to a place he never was before. There was No post-mortem life for Adam. The soul dies - Ezekiel 18:4,20
Also, the soul can be destroyed according to gospel writer Luke at Acts of the Apostles 3:23.
If the soul was immortal there would be No need for a resurrection. The living do Not need a resurrection.
Christendom is a mixture or fusion of non-biblical teachings with Scripture.
That does Not make Scripture as wrong but makes the false religious teachers as wrong.
For example:
Jesus likened death simply to sleep - John 11:12-14
Jesus was well educated in the old Hebrew Scriptures which also teach unconscious sleep in death:
- Psalms 6:5; Psalms 13:3; Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4; Daniel 12:2; Daniel 12:13; Ecclesiastes 9:5
So, as we are Not aware of the passing of time while asleep, the dead will know nothing until resurrection day.
Resurrection Day is Not a 24 hour day, but Jesus' coming millennium-long day of governing over Earth.
Then, the majority of mankind will be awakened from death's deep sleep with the opportunity to live forever on Earth as originally offered to Adam before his downfall. - Acts of the Apostles 24:15

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Wouldn't that make Adam greater than Jesus? If Jesus didn't have a father but a mother, and Adam had neither a mother or a father, an greatness is a measure of miraculous signs then Adam would be greater! Or perhaps the story of Adam and Eve is a symbolic one ......................
What do you think? Is that plausable or is your way the only way of understanding Christianity.

Both Adam and Jesus had God as their Father (Life Giver) - Luke 3:38
Adam was created without sin, Jesus was also created without sin.
According to Scripture, Adam and Eve were Not symbolic but God purposed that we all be descendants from father Adam and mother Eve.
Jesus was God's only-begotten Son in the heavens before God sent Jesus' pre-human life was to Earth for us.
Adam was formed from the dust of the ground, and did Not come to life until after God ' breathed the breath of life ' into lifeless Adam - Genesis 2:7

 

[oldbadger]

Well, I was a qualified Graves Registration Specialist in the army. Oh yes, I was also a qualified marksman with the M1 rifle in the army. Impressed? .

Yes. Interested.
A long time ago I shot full-bore at Bisley.
And 30 years ago I set out with my cousin to find her father's grave at RAF Brookwood near Woking, England. The rows of graves reaching into the distance leave one in shock, dismay and awe, but with a sense of gratitude and respect for those committed to the memory of the fallen.

So....... Yes.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Here you go..... Jehovah’s Witnesses | Beliefs and FAQs | JW.ORG

Thank you for that. I also read about the JWs on wikipedia.

Jehovah's Witnesses - Wikipedia

Its always good to obtain information from different sources.

I'm pleased it is something that you have found helpful and found spiritually helpful. Thats the most important thing.

It seems like a very peaceful religion. Isn't it closer to Islam though? I must do some more research. Thanks for the link.

The Baha'i Faith is an independant religion that came out an Islam, just as Christianity came from Judaism. As a Baha'i I believe in the same God, Jesus, and Gospels the Christians belief in. I also believe the God has inspired the other major religions and that Baha'u'llah (Arabic for Glory of God) is the manifestation of God for this day.

I'm very happy being a Baha'i and we are encouraged to consort with peoples of all Faiths in a spirit of love and fellowship. So in that spirit I do thank you for letting me know about your faith and what led you to it.

I'm on RF for the most part as an opportunity to meet new people and learn more about different faiths and explore and understand different peoples spirituality. I'm always happy to discuss and explain my beliefs to anyone who is interested but Baha'is do not prosletyze.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Before Jesus' death he had only one physical body while on Earth.
Before coming to Earth Jesus had only one spirit body.
God transferred Jesus' spirit life to the womb of Mary.
God was the father (life giver) of both Adam and Jesus - Luke 3:38 B

Thank you for sharing your Christian views with me. Do you mind me asking what denomination of Christianity you belong to?

 

[Deeje]

Those who come out of the great tribulation are the ones who are alive during that time. They will join those in heaven. There is not 2 groups and no verse(s) indicate there are.

Actually there are two's of a lot of things in the Bible....opposites in a some cases.

There are two roads...one leading to life and the other leading to death. (Matthew 7:13-14)

There are "sheep" and "goats" at the judgment. (Matt 25:31-32)

There is a "little flock" and "other sheep" (Luke 12:32; John 10:16)

There is a "first resurrection" for those chosen to rule with Jesus in heaven, (Revelation 20:6) and another general resurrection to follow when Christ calls the dead from their graves. (John 5:28-29)

There are the "144,000" and the "great multitude which no man could number". (Revelation 7:4; 9, 10, 13, 14)

There are those who care for Christ's "brothers" and the ones whom Jesus rejects as deserving the same punishment as the devil and his hordes. (Matthew 25:34, 41)

God does not have a different plan for any of His children. We will all end up in the same place---heaven

There are those whom Christ accepts as his true disciples, as opposed to those who just claim to be Christians. (Matthew 7:21-23) He says he has never known them.

If everyone goes to heaven, then there will be all chiefs and no Indians. The Kingdom is a government of God, set up to reconcile humankind back with their Creator. They are to be 'priests and rulers' with Christ in heaven. John sees in his Revelation that the kingdom directs its rulership to "men" with the end result that death and suffering and pain become things of the past. (Revelation 21:2-4) If they are to be "priests"...for whom do they act as priests? If they are to "rule with Christ", over whom do they rule?

The 144,000 are not called first fruits.

Those chosen to rule with Christ are those who will "rise first". (1 Thess 4:13-17) Why make that statement if they are all to rise in the same way? No one went to heaven before Christ and Paul said no one was to go to heaven after him until his return. What happened to all those dead people in the meantime?

You are adding to God's word. Neither of those verses have first fruits in them.

All Christians are first fruits--Jas 1:18

This is speaking about spirit-anointed Christians.....all of the first Christians were spirit anointed....they were all taken into the "New Covenant" with Jesus as "firstfruits". No one before them was anointed for heavenly life, so where did they all go when they died? Where was Lazarus before Jesus raised him? (John 11:11-14)

Where did Jesus say David was? (Acts 2:34-35) What about John the Baptist who died before Jesus?

Matthew 11:11:
"Truly I say to you, among those born of women, there has not been raised up anyone greater than John the Baptist, but a lesser person in the Kingdom of the heavens is greater than he is."

How could that be if John is also in the Kingdom of the heavens?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

No one has escaped from Heaven to tell us what a hard existence awaits us.

But time does not exist there, so neither do days, boring or otherwise.

 

[omega2xx]

Isn't the experience of a stress free life is in something we do for ourselves, others, and our environment?

From you posts it seems you have not yet discovered a stress free life. In this life you never will.

Are you just thoughts? A new body floating around with a permanent smile on your face (no pun)?

Where did you get such a silly idea.

What makes heaven, heaven to someone who has never gone to earth to find it?

I have no idea.

 

[omega2xx]

Depends on what self you are talking about, the Self or the self.

I Self God and self god?

 

[omega2xx]

Actually there are two's of a lot of things in the Bible....opposites in a some cases.

There are two roads...one leading to life and the other leading to death. (Matthew 7:13-14)

There are "sheep" and "goats" at the judgment. (Matt 25:31-32)

There is a "little flock" and "other sheep" (Luke 12:32; John 10:16)

There is a "first resurrection" for those chosen to rule with Jesus in heaven, (Revelation 20:6) and another general resurrection to follow when Christ calls the dead from their graves. (John 5:28-29)

There are the "144,000" and the "great multitude which no man could number". (Revelation 7:4; 9, 10, 13, 14)

There are those who care for Christ's "brothers" and the ones whom Jesus rejects as deserving the same punishment as the devil and his hordes. (Matthew 25:34, 41)



There are those whom Christ accepts as his true disciples, as opposed to those who just claim to be Christians. (Matthew 7:21-23) He says he has never known them.

If everyone goes to heaven, then there will be all chiefs and no Indians. The Kingdom is a government of God, set up to reconcile humankind back with their Creator. They are to be 'priests and rulers' with Christ in heaven. John sees in his Revelation that the kingdom directs its rulership to "men" with the end result that death and suffering and pain become things of the past. (Revelation 21:2-4) If they are to be "priests"...for whom do they act as priests? If they are to "rule with Christ", over whom do they rule?

Everyone does not go to heaven.

Those chosen to rule with Christ are those who will "rise first". (1 Thess 4:13-17) Why make that statement if they are all to rise in the same way? No one went to heaven before Christ and Paul said no one was to go to heaven after him until his return. What happened to all those dead people in the meantime?

It is the dead in Christ who will rise first, not those who are dead but not in Christ. Enoch and Elijah went to heaven before the resurrection of Jesus.

This is speaking about spirit-anointed Christians.....all of the first Christians were spirit anointed....they were all taken into the "New Covenant" with Jesus as "firstfruits". No one before them was anointed for heavenly life, so where did they all go when they died? Where was Lazarus before Jesus raised him? (John 11:11-14)[/QUOTE]

Everyone who died before the resurrection went to Sheol. Sheol is divided into to parts---paradise and torments. Lazarus went to paradise, wher the otghe Lazarus was and where the thief on the cross who believed who Jesus was.

Where did Jesus say David was? (Acts 2:34-35) What about John the Baptist who died before Jesus?

Matthew 11:11:
"Truly I say to you, among those born of women, there has not been raised up anyone greater than John the Baptist, but a lesser person in the Kingdom of the heavens is greater than he is."

How could that be if John is also in the Kingdom of the heavens?[/QUOTE]

two were in heaven and the angels are in heaven. John is greater than any of them.

 

[Skwim]

But time does not exist there, so neither do days, boring or otherwise.

Interesting. How did you come across this fascinating bit of information?


.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

From you posts it seems you have not yet discovered a stress free life. In this life you never will.

How silly. In heaven you wont take stock of you life. It will be new every day. with no worries.

What is wrong with that? I was born, I live, I age, and I pass on in spirit to help my family through the same. They did this before. They do this now. I repay the favor and hopefully in this life as well.

I've gone through brain surgery, the worse kinds of seizures I wouldn't wish on any person, I've gone through trauma, and a form of PTSD that's still wearing off and chronic depression that doesn't want to fall off my tail from years ago.

I know stress; but, I never wished for a heaven. I don't even know where to start to think of something very "silly" and unrealistic as that. However, I'm always fascinated in a good way of people who do have that idea. My family has it too but I wouldn't ask them directly. They just "want me to come back to Christ."

I never felt anything wrong with not wanting a 100 percent stress free life because what I do for myself, for others, and for my environment makes up for the stress I experience on a daily basis. I enjoy it in it's tips and falls while I am here. I don't understand why the future is so more important than the present.

Where did you get such a silly idea.

How can you have no stress if you have a body in heaven?
What do you do in heaven that makes heaven, heaven?
Are you just walking around and visiting loved ones?
In a state of prostrated prayer for eternity?

What is your idea of actual heaven? We know you feel there is no worries. How do you know this? Describe heaven.

I have no idea.

Then is it heaven or is heaven dependent on the human's wants to be worry free?

 

[Deeje]

@omega2xx

“Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’" (Matthew 7:21-23)

These are "Christians" appealing against Jesus' rejection of them. He says he has never known them.

You did not answer my questions......

If all Christians go to heaven, then there will be all chiefs and no Indians. The Kingdom is a government of God, set up to reconcile humankind back with their Creator. They are to be 'priests and rulers' with Christ in heaven. John sees in his Revelation that Christ and his Bride (making up "New Jerusalem") direct their rulership to "men" with the end result that death and suffering and pain become things of the past. (Revelation 21:2-4) If they are to be "priests"...for whom do they act as priests? If they are to "rule with Christ", over whom do they rule?

Please explain......

 

[Deeje]

Ah ha!. Yes!
Now, I'm not a fan of G-John, but that gospel nails the date to Nisan 14 smack-on.
You might be interested to scrutinize Matthew and Mark because they get the day wrong because their account calculates out to Nisan 15. I have the homework for that somewhere but not on this laptop.

According to my sources....

"Passover (Heb., peʹsach; Gr., paʹskha) was instituted the evening preceding the Exodus from Egypt. The first Passover was observed about the time of full moon, on the 14th day of Abib (later called Nisan) in the year 1513 B.C.E. This was thereafter to be celebrated annually. (Ex 12:17-20, 24-27) Abib (Nisan) falls within the months March-April of the Gregorian calendar. Passover was followed by seven days of the Festival of Unfermented Cakes, Nisan 15-21. Passover commemorates the deliverance of the Israelites from Egypt and the ‘passing over’ of their firstborn when Jehovah destroyed the firstborn of Egypt. Seasonally, it fell at the beginning of the barley harvest.—Ex 12:14, 24-47; Lev 23:10.

Passover was a memorial celebration; therefore the Scriptural command was: “And it must occur that when your sons say to you, ‘What does this service mean to you?’ then you must say, ‘It is the sacrifice of the passover to Jehovah, who passed over the houses of the sons of Israel in Egypt when he plagued the Egyptians, but he delivered our houses.’”—Ex 12:26, 27.

Since the Jews reckoned the day as starting after sundown and ending the next day at sundown, Nisan 14 would begin after sundown. It would be in the evening after Nisan 13 concluded that the Passover would be observed. Since the Bible definitely states that Christ is the Passover sacrifice (1Cor 5:7) and that he observed the Passover meal the evening before he was put to death, the date of his death would be Nisan 14, not Nisan 15, in order to fulfill accurately the time feature of the type, or shadow, provided in the Law.—Heb 10:1." (Insight Volume 2)

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Thank you for sharing your Christian views with me. Do you mind me asking what denomination of Christianity you belong to?

I am Not here to discuss denomination because that often becomes the focus instead of what the Bible really teaches.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Interesting. How did you come across this fascinating bit of information?
.

I don't know how 'Terry' concludes that time does Not expire, but does God expire?
According to Scripture at Psalms 90:2 God is from everlasting, so God has No expiration date and No beginning.
So, the fact that we can everlastingly count both forwards and backwards forever and ever shows forever time.
In other words, eternity is already in our hearts and minds.
What healthy person wants to pick the day they want to die, but rather normal desire is to keep on living.

 

[oldbadger]

According to my sources....

"Passover (Heb., peʹsach; Gr., paʹskha) was instituted the evening preceding the Exodus from Egypt. The first Passover was observed about the time of full moon, on the 14th day of Abib (later called Nisan) in the year 1513 B.C.E. This was thereafter to be celebrated annually. (Ex 12:17-20, 24-27) Abib (Nisan) falls within the months March-April of the Gregorian calendar. Passover was followed by seven days of the Festival of Unfermented Cakes, Nisan 15-21. Passover commemorates the deliverance of the Israelites from Egypt and the ‘passing over’ of their firstborn when Jehovah destroyed the firstborn of Egypt. Seasonally, it fell at the beginning of the barley harvest.—Ex 12:14, 24-47; Lev 23:10.

Passover was a memorial celebration; therefore the Scriptural command was: “And it must occur that when your sons say to you, ‘What does this service mean to you?’ then you must say, ‘It is the sacrifice of the passover to Jehovah, who passed over the houses of the sons of Israel in Egypt when he plagued the Egyptians, but he delivered our houses.’”—Ex 12:26, 27.

Since the Jews reckoned the day as starting after sundown and ending the next day at sundown, Nisan 14 would begin after sundown. It would be in the evening after Nisan 13 concluded that the Passover would be observed. Since the Bible definitely states that Christ is the Passover sacrifice (1Cor 5:7) and that he observed the Passover meal the evening before he was put to death, the date of his death would be Nisan 14, not Nisan 15, in order to fulfill accurately the time feature of the type, or shadow, provided in the Law.—Heb 10:1." (Insight Volume 2)

No probs, apart from you quoting 1 Corinthians, because Paul was no witness to the last-supper. But the synoptics throw the date back by a day, probably just a mistake copied from G-Mark into Matthew etc.

By the Way, do you have an approximate Exodus route? I am very interested in Exodus. Do you have any opinion as to why the chosen time was a Full-Moon in spring time? This is just me, rambling thoughts and all.

 

[oldbadger]

What healthy person wants to pick the day they want to die, but rather normal desire is to keep on living.

I've never understood why a Christian would worry about continuity of life? Surely a 100% Christian believer would welcome death, rather like the Jehovah Witnesses are famed for in the Nazi death-camps? Now there's Faith for you.

 

[Deeje]

Didn't He have just one physical body or was he like a spirit during His time on earth? Or perhaps you mean a body and a soul like the rest of us and his soul ascended to heaven. Then there would be no rational contradiction with Jesus' body ascending to heaven. So His Spirit or Soul ascends to heaven in the unseen heavenly realm (not in the sky) and His body remains on earth. His resurrection then becomes spiritual and not physical. That would make more sense to me.

When one has been raised to believe the first lie told by the devil, ("you surely will not die") it is hard to dismiss it. Even harder since we are designed to live forever. We cannot even imagine going out of existence. (Eccl 3:11) But Adam was not told of an afterlife in his sentence from God after the fall. He was simply told that he would return to where he was before (Genesis 3:19)....where was that? The same place we were before our parents conceived us...he did not exist.

The Jewish notion of a soul was never a disembodied spirit or an invisible part of man that separated from the body at death. There was no consciousness in death at all. (Eccl 9:5,6,10) A "soul" meant the living breathing creature....both man and animal. (Eccl 3:19, 20)

For Jesus (the man) his body was entirely physical since he was given a human birth out of a human womb by a human mother. Since God said he "sent" his "only-begotten son" to the earth on a rescue mission, and that Jesus 'came down from heaven', it must mean that his lifeforce was somehow transferred to Mary's womb. He was a spirit in heaven, who came to be born as a sinless human on earth, and when he was resurrected, as it says in 1 Peter 3:18.....
"He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit."

Spirits can materialize, as the Bible plainly says. When angels came with a message for Abraham, they appeared in physical form. They were given a feast that Sarah prepared for them. (Gen 19) They ate and drank like any other human. When two of them went on to Sodom to pronounce God's judgment against her, the angels again ate and drank and physically escorted Lot and his family out of the city.

If Jesus was raised as a spirit, then he too would be able to materialize a body of flesh. Most of the time, his disciples did not recognize him, which indicates that he must have materialized different bodies. At one time it was a body with wounds for the benefit of a doubting Thomas, yet at no other time were these very visible injuries on is hands mentioned. Jesus had been beaten with a flagellum, which would have torn his flesh to ribbons. A crown of thorns was forced onto his head doing even more physical damage.
Also, if Jesus was resurrected in the body he sacrificed, it would have cancelled the value of it to take it back.

Wouldn't that make Adam greater than Jesus? If Jesus didn't have a father but a mother, and Adam had neither a mother or a father, an greatness is a measure of miraculous signs then Adam would be greater! Or perhaps the story of Adm and Eve is a symbolic one filled with hidden intrinsic spiritual meanings not to be taken literally. Perhaps God was the father of Jesus in a spiritual not physical sense. Then Christ's greatness can be explained by His Divine attributes rather than the Divine mystery of His virgin birth.

What do you think? Is that plausable or is your way the only way of understanding Christianity.

It is the Bible that tells the story...we do not to guess. Jesus mentioned that 'He who created the first humans made them male and female' and instituted the marriage arrangement, so that "what God has yoked together, let no man put apart". (Matthew 19:3-9)

Jesus' life had to be the equivalent of Adam's (1 Cor 15:45) in order to pay the redemption price....."a life for a life". So there was no superiority in the flesh between Adam and Jesus as both were sinless, but there was much superiority in Jesus' former life.....one to which he was to return once his mission was complete.

His ascension to heaven was as a spirit. He was raised up from the view of the disciples and a cloud obscured his departure. (Acts 1:3-11)