* sigh* Just Another Day In Heaven

[Dawnofhope]

Yes many have done that, the JW's, and my church that I once attended, the Seventh Day Adventist. Its funny how many try to predict the end or the second coming, when Jesus plainly said that know one will know.

Yes, no one knows the hour or the day except the father, not even the son...

However I do believe that events can be identified after they happen. For example identifying events surrounding Jesus in the book of Daniel. I appreicate you may not believe that because it involves Faith in a God that reveals prophetic events to men such as Daniel.

What church did you attend?

 

[psychoslice]

I think it is about identifying key processes with the rise and fall of religions and civilisations. It also relates to events that have mostly happened. I've seen a lot of people look really silly trying to connect it either current events or a near future event eg end of the world by 2000.

Yes many have done that, the JW's, and my church that I once attended, the Seventh Day Adventist. Its funny how many try to predict the end or the second coming, when Jesus plainly said that know one will know.

Yes, no one knows the hour or the day except the father, not even the son...

However I do believe that events can be identified after they happen. For example identifying events surrounding Jesus in the book of Daniel. I appreicate you may not believe that because it involves Faith in a God that reveals prophetic events to men such as Daniel.

What church did you attend?

I don't really know, it could be true ?.

 

[Dawnofhope]

South East Coast of NSW. I just checked your profile and noticed that you are a Kiwi.
Hey cousin from across the pond.

Its nice talking to another Australian here. I'm from Dunedin

Don't know much about the JWs other than no blood transfusions, the 144,000, and you go visiting neighbourhoods door to door.

Easy to read on the net but I'll wait to see what unfold with our conversation first

 

[oldbadger]

- People who were jerks in life all have "Kick me" signs on their backs...& it's encouraged to do so.!

Gawd...... you're going to hate it, there.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I don't really know, it could be true ?.

Nice that you have an open mind about these things but I'm not offended if you think its a load of religious fluff either

 

[Dawnofhope]

Gawd...... you're going to hate it, there.

Hey oldbadger, good to see you. How did you end up here in heaven along with the rest of us?

 

[oldbadger]

I'm proud to announce that as a senior elder of the Studd Hill Moonlight Frolickers and naked bathers (July only) I shall certainly be in the other place, or if I'm dead (!) lucky in Purgatory.

Anyway, in the other place you can have any body and age you like, so I'm going to be looking Good at last.

........ and the chicks.........

Yeah...... Good Luck in heaven!

 

[oldbadger]

Hey oldbadger, good to see you. How did you end up here in heaven along with the rest of us?

Hi......
No......
You will be able to spirit-mail me at OldBADger@'ell and then I can send a reply with some pic attachments showing the rest of the Moonlight Frolicking Followers. Be careful how you say that title.

 

[Jedster]

After seeing Heaven, I would have to visit Hell, you know see the sights, do some fishing in the Lake of Fire.

You might like "The great divorce" by C.S.Lewis.
See The Great Divorce - Wikipedia

 

[oldbadger]

Of course not. I'm looking for speculation.

I'll see you down in the other place.

Look, DON'T be good and go to heaven! If you want to meet Jesus you need to be BAD and go to Purgatory or Hell.

Jesus did not mind eating meat and taking drink with friends, but he far preferred to eat and drink with sinners. He said so.


And I can't imagine that he will have changed his mind. I wouldn't mind meeting him, either, because he wasn't the boringly religious bloke that many churches make out. He was very very exciting bloke to be around, I'll bet.

 

[Deeje]

Its nice talking to another Australian here. I'm from Dunedin

Don't know much about the JWs other than no blood transfusions, the 144,000, and you go visiting neighbourhoods door to door.

Easy to read on the net but I'll wait to see what unfold with our conversation first

I appreciate that because its way too easy to get stuff off the net that just isn't true. Jesus was a victim of popular opinion fired by misrepresentation.

We have a website that is really informative. JW.ORG

I wasn't always a JW so it was a choice on my part, not because they were popular but more because they weren't. (John 15:18-21) I was fed up with the hypocrisy of the church I was raised in. I was spiritually hungry and no one had any decent 'food'.....the JW 'shop' was well stocked and the food was fresh, not centuries old and stale.
I found it delicious!

I thought they were the last people on earth who could teach me anything, but I soon found out how wrong I was.

On the blood transfusion issue, could I get your thoughts on this video from the NSW Government website? You're a GP, right?

Patient Blood Management (PBM) | National Blood Authority

The "door to door" preaching is based on the 'apostolic method'. (Acts 5:42; Acts 20:20; Matthew 10 11-15)
When Emergency Services want to issue important warnings, and lives are at stake, they go door to door so they don't miss anyone....we have the same attitude.

You've seen why we think the 144,000 is a literal number......

 

[Deeje]

Here's a link if you would like to check out our take on the Beasts of Daniel and Revelation.

Beasts, Symbolic — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

 

[oldbadger]

You've seen why we think the 144,000 is a literal number......

Hi....
About that number........
About once a year I go to the local Kingdom Hall.
Last time I went (Easter?) a form of communion was held, where the wine and bread was passed around the congregation. Nobody actually drank wine or ate bread....... apart from one person, a man who sat just in front of me.

Would he be one of the 144,000?

 

[Deeje]

Hi....
About that number........
About once a year I go to the local Kingdom Hall.
Last time I went (Easter?) a form of communion was held, where the wine and bread was passed around the congregation. Nobody actually drank wine or ate bread....... apart from one person, a man who sat just in front of me.

Would he be one of the 144,000?

Yep, that's how we do it. It's called the Memorial of Christ's Death and we celebrate it on the right date, just as the Jews celebrated Passover on Nisan 14 each year according to the Jewish calendar, after sundown. That way we don't get tangled up in the whole Easter thing, which we believe is as pagan as Christmas. We won't touch it. ( 2 Corinthians 6:14-18)

Since we believe that only 144,000 will go to heaven, and most of them are already there, that means that they are a bit thin on the ground down here now. And since it is only the 144,000 co-rulers of Jesus who were taken into the New Covenant, those of us who hope to live under their rulership on earth don't take the bread and wine. We are beneficiaries of that covenant, not parties to it.

We only have one chap who takes the emblems as well....most congregation don't have any partakers. But passing around the bread and the wine reminds us of the sacrifice Jesus made on our behalf and this is the only thing Christ commanded us to do. (Luke 22:19-20) He didn't tell us to celebrate his resurrection or his birth because neither of those furnished the payment of the ransom....it was Jesus' death that procured our release.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I appreciate that because its way too easy to get stuff off the net that just isn't true. Jesus was a victim of popular opinion fired by misrepresentation.

We have a website that is really informative. JW.ORG

Thanks for that. Nicely laid out website. Don't have time to go through it in depth. Would you quickly outline the key differences betweem JWs and mainstream Christianity or direct me to the part of the website that explains it if you don't mind.

I wasn't always a JW so it was a choice on my part, not because they were popular but more because they weren't. (John 15:18-21) I was fed up with the hypocrisy of the church I was raised in. I was spiritually hungry and no one had any decent 'food'.....the JW 'shop' was well stocked and the food was fresh, not centuries old and stale.
I found it delicious!

It is excellent that you have found a faith that sustains and nourishes you spiritually. That's what its all about. I have a patient who was a sex worker who has found some assistance through becoming a JW.

I was a Christian too but like you found fulfillment elsewhere. Been a Baha'i for 25+ years
The Bahá’í Faith - The website of the worldwide Bahá’í community

On the blood transfusion issue, could I get your thoughts on this video from the NSW Government website? You're a GP, right?

Patient Blood Management (PBM) | National Blood Authority

Thats right, I'm a GP. The website makes a compelling case for using transfusion a lot less than we do.

The "door to door" preaching is based on the 'apostolic method'. (Acts 5:42; Acts 20:20; Matthew 10 11-15)
When Emergency Services want to issue important warnings, and lives are at stake, they go door to door so they don't miss anyone....we have the same attitude.

I have no problem with people of Faith communities going door to door as long as they are respectful of the people they talk to which in my experience the JWs have been.

You've seen why we think the 144,000 is a literal number......

I'm unable to see any justification for this belief either rationally or in scripture and it certainly contradicts what I believe in as a Baha'i. I'd be interested to here you persuade me otherwise.

Here's a link if you would like to check out our take on the Beasts of Daniel and Revelation.

Beasts, Symbolic — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

Thanks for that. Baha'is would see the terrifying beast as militant Islam rather than the Roman empire. Ever considered why it so different from the others, features in a prophetic book 'after' the death of Jesus, and Islam a religion of 25% of the worlds population isn't mentioned anywhere? It's because it is mentioned

 

[omega2xx]

Perhaps reading the whole passage might clear that up.....

"And I heard the number of the sealed, 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel.....

11 After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, 10 and crying out with a loud voice, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!”......


13 Then one of the elders addressed me, saying, “Who are these, clothed in white robes, and from where have they come?” 14 I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

There are two groups...one in heaven with Jesus...a finite group, contrasted with another group who were without number, attributing salvation to God and to the Lamb. John identifies them as those who 'come out of the great tribulation' as survivors.

Those who come out of the great tribulation are the ones who are alive during that time. They will join those in heaven. There is not 2 groups and no verse(s) indicate there are.

The finite group are in heaven, the other group survive the final time of trouble as the earth is cleansed of all wickedness.
These come out of the great tribulation (Matthew 24:21) just as Noah and his family came out of the ark. (Matthew 24:37-39)

God does not have a different plan for any of His children. We will all end up in the same place---heaven

The 144,000 are "chosen from among mankind as firstfruits" according to the apostle John. (Revelation 14:1, 3, 4)

The 144,000 are not called first fruits.

Those "firstfruits" are also mentioned by Paul. They are resurrected "first" (1 Thessalonians 4:13-17; Revelation 20:6)

You are adding to God's word. Neither of those verses have first fruits in them.

All Christians are first fruits--Jas 1:18

 

[Revoltingest]

Gawd...... you're going to hate it, there.

What makes you think I don't have other plans?

 

[omega2xx]

Well of course I don't lol.

Thanks for comnirming what I already knew.

Do you think "self" can be wrong or is self omniscient?

 

[Kuzcotopia]

Of course you want to leave it at that because even you know that not all Th.Ds are equal (or, you should know). In fact, because of your evasion I'm beginning to suspect your Th.D may actually have come from something like a Liberty Online University or a Patriot Bible University. And don't kid yourself that just because you may have one means you know anything about translating classical Hebrew and Koine Greek, because we both know there's no necessary correspondence.

And as long as you're flaunting your Th.D, how about telling us where you got it from and when, where you were ordained, and what you are ordained as.

We await your honest disclosure.


.

.

Anyone with that level of degree nows they are supposed to disclose that information.

He's pulling a logical fallacy called an Appeal to Accomplishment.

Appeal to Accomplishment

What's particularly funny is that the accomplishments themselves are questionable, because nothing's actually been disclosed. It's an extremely dishonest way to engage in a discussion.

 

[whirlingmerc]

God being both dynamic and infinite and man being made to discover and enjoy God
will keep it exciting.... hell will be boring... 'what you doing today? burning... what you doing tomorrow? burning... " painfully boring

Heaven is like sipping the ocean with a straw
There's always more to discover about God and enjoy
It's like climbing a spectacular mountain and seeing a yet bigger one above it once you get up

Bottom line: heaven will never be boring
Heaven Will Never Be Boring | Desiring God