* sigh* Just Another Day In Heaven

[Neo Deist]

Whaaaaat!!!!! *scrambles for his bible*

Matthew 5:17-20
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 6:19-21
“Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal, but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

2 Peter 3:13
But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

2 Corinthians 5:1
For we know that if the tent that is our earthly home is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2 Kings 2:11
And as they still went on and talked, behold, chariots of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

ESV / 22 helpful votes
Nevertheless, do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.”
​

I think the message here is pretty clear here: some people will end up there.

Nope. You need to understand the verses in the original biblical languages, and not the butchered English translations. The Greek term for heaven actually has 3 meanings:

God's dwelling place
The cosmos
The sky (with the clouds)

Having said that, there is not a single verse that states that when Christians die, they go to Heaven (God's dwelling place).

 

[Deeje]

I don't know of anyone who thinks everyone, as in "they are all," is going to heaven. Why the odd remark?

I don't know of too many who identify as "Christians" who don't believe that they are going to heaven. It wasn't an odd remark.

Ah, this isn't heaven.

Oh but it is for those who are workers like God and his son. Boredom comes from not having anything meaningful to do.
There will be plenty of meaningful things to do in order to carry out the second part of the original mandate.
Gen 1:28:
"...God blessed them, and God said to them: “Be fruitful and become many, fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving on the earth.”

We have "filled the earth" but we have not "subdued" it or gained the subjection of the earthly creatures.
The first part of the mandate was restated to Noah, but the second part was missing.

"And God blessed Noah and his sons and said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth. 2 The fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth and upon every bird of the heavens, upon everything that creeps on the ground and all the fish of the sea. Into your hand they are delivered. 3 Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. And as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything. 4 But you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood. 5 And for your lifeblood I will require a reckoning: from every beast I will require it and from man. From his fellow man I will require a reckoning for the life of man."

6 “Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed, for God made man in his own image.


7 And you, be fruitful and multiply, increase greatly on the earth and multiply in it.”

When Noah exited the ark, he was given permission to eat flesh for the first time. With that permission came the prohibition to eat blood and God's instilling the fear of man in all of God's creatures. It is why we can no longer approach even domestic animals at times.

And this is Jerusalem.

It was also pictorial of "New Jerusalem" seen bringing God's rulership to the earth in Revelation 21:2-4.
It was to be part of "the new heavens and new earth" to come. (Isaiah 65:17; 2 Peter 3:13)

Whaaaaat!!!!! *scrambles for his bible*

Matthew 5:17-20
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 6:19-21
“Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal, but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

2 Peter 3:13
But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

2 Corinthians 5:1
For we know that if the tent that is our earthly home is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2 Kings 2:11
And as they still went on and talked, behold, chariots of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

ESV / 22 helpful votes
Nevertheless, do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.”
​

I think the message here is pretty clear here: some people will end up there.

Yes it was pretty clear that those to whom the Bible was written, that they would end up there. All of the first Christians were of the anointed or "chosen ones", taken into "the new covenant". The Christians scriptures were written by them and for them....but it doesn't mean that God's will, to have a perfect race of obedient humans living on earth, will not still take place. As it says in Isaiah 55:11 (ESV).....
"so shall my word be that goes out from my mouth; it shall not return to me empty,
but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it."

God did not put us on this earth for no reason. What he purposed at the beginning, he will accomplish at the end....All you need to do is ascertain what he purposed at the start. It will come to pass. God's will can then "be done on earth as it is in heaven"......

 

[Deeje]

In Scripture Jesus Says:

"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven."

and

"Why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but fail to notice the log in your own eye?"

It seems like a massive object to have in our eyes when we start playing God and saying who and how many go to heaven

How did you read my comment that way?

I said nothing about judging anyone. Everlasting life was meant to be lived right here on earth. Why else would God put us here with no natural cause of death? Sin is what introduced death into the world, (Romans 5:12) so conversely, if sin had never happened, death would never have happened either. The "tree of life" was in the garden too. There was no prohibition on that tree until Adam and his wife defected from under their Creator's sovereignty.

According to Genesis 3:22-24....
"Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever—” 23 therefore the Lord God sent him out from the garden of Eden to work the ground from which he was taken. 24 He drove out the man, and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim and a flaming sword that turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life."

Living forever was dependent on access to that tree....life was meant to be everlasting in paradise conditions with no knowledge of evil.....sounds great to me!

As to the number of those who go to heaven, the Revelation supplies a finite number....144,000. (Revelation 14:1-5)
It is God who chooses them, not any human.

 

[Skwim]

Nope. You need to understand the verses in the original biblical languages, and not the butchered English translations.

I wasn't aware you're a Biblical scholar capable of reading classical Hebrew and Koine Greek, and able to correctly assess early biblical writings. What are your scholarly publishings as of date?

The Greek term for heaven actually has 3 meanings:

God's dwelling place
The cosmos
The sky (with the clouds)

So what? As it stands the scholars, translators, and publishers who put the present-day Bibles together have not seen fit to make any such distinction, leaving the word "heaven" to be defined as, among other things, the place where the saved will go after they die.

Having said that, there is not a single verse that states that when Christians die, they go to Heaven (God's dwelling place).

Not all Christians of course, but when Jesus says in Matthew 5:20,

For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.​

There's the firm indication that entering heaven is a very real possibility if one does X, Y, and Z.


.

 

[Dawnofhope]

As to the number of those who go to heaven, the Revelation supplies a finite number....144,000. (Revelation 14:1-5)
It is God who chooses them, not any human.

Thats a very literal interpretation of the book of revelation. It's a book with highly symbolic meaning. Is there any other way of understanding it?

 

[Geoff-Allen]

What will the afterlife be like?

Maybe near-death experiences are a clue ...

17 Near-Death Experience Accounts from "Beyond the Light"

All the best!

 

[Geoff-Allen]

Also try this search -

near-death.com heaven

Cheers!

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Thats a very literal interpretation of the book of revelation. It's a book with highly symbolic meaning. Is there any other way of understanding it?

To me, Revelation is written in very-vivid word pictures, but that does Not mean it can't be understood.
As with the rest of John's writings, and the rest of Scripture, there are cross-reference verses with other Bible books such as Revelation 13 corresponding with Daniel 7:1-7 and Daniel 8:3-8; 20-25
The saints or holy ones posses the kingdom - Daniel 7:18; Luke 22:28-29
'Flesh' (physical) can Not inherit the kingdom - 1 Corinthians 15:50
So, those resurrected to heaven have a first or earlier resurrection - Revelation 20:6; 2:10
They have two (2) jobs to do according to Revelation 5:8-10. They serve as both: kings and priests.
There is No need for such jobs for those residing in heaven, but there is a need for mankind who live on Earth.
After Jesus, as Prince of Peace, ushers in global Peace on Earth among men of goodwill, then those in heaven will have governmental responsibilities as kings towards those living on Earth. They will also have spiritual duties as priests toward those who will inherit the Earth as Jesus promised at Matthew 5:5

 

[Deeje]

Rev 7:9 - After these things I looked, and behold a great multitude which no one could count....

Perhaps reading the whole passage might clear that up.....

"And I heard the number of the sealed, 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel.....

11 After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, 10 and crying out with a loud voice, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!”......


13 Then one of the elders addressed me, saying, “Who are these, clothed in white robes, and from where have they come?” 14 I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

There are two groups...one in heaven with Jesus...a finite group, contrasted with another group who were without number, attributing salvation to God and to the Lamb. John identifies them as those who 'come out of the great tribulation' as survivors.

The finite group are in heaven, the other group survive the final time of trouble as the earth is cleansed of all wickedness.
These come out of the great tribulation (Matthew 24:21) just as Noah and his family came out of the ark. (Matthew 24:37-39)

The 144,000 are "chosen from among mankind as firstfruits" according to the apostle John. (Revelation 14:1, 3, 4)

Those "firstfruits" are also mentioned by Paul. They are resurrected "first" (1 Thessalonians 4:13-17; Revelation 20:6)

 

[Twilight Hue]

The cake was a lie.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

What will the afterlife be like?
!

Is the Bible teaching about a coming 'resurrection' the same as an 'afterlife' teaching.
To me, Jesus did Not teach afterlife (more alive at death than before death), but Jesus taught: resurrection.
A happy-and-healthy physical resurrection from death's sleep such as Jesus taught at John 11:11-14
Meaning to me, the dead are in a sleep-like state until they are later resurrected.
Jesus would have gotten that dead sleep-like state from the teachings from the old Hebrew Scriptures such as:
- Psalms 6:5; Psalms 13:3; Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4; Daniel 12:2; Daniel 12:13; Ecclesiastes 9:5
Acts of the Apostles 24:15 uses the ' future tense ' that there ' is going to be ' a resurrection......
That is because the majority of mankind will be awakened from death's deep sleep during Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth begins. Then life will be free from enemy death - 1 Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8

 

[Deeje]

Thats a very literal interpretation of the book of revelation. It's a book with highly symbolic meaning. Is there any other way of understanding it?

JW's allow scripture to interpret scripture. If the number was not literal, the contrast with an infinite group would make no sense.
They would both have been an infinite number. Revelation is highly symbolic but it still has to co-relate to the rest of the Christian scriptures. The Bible does not contradict itself...it is man's interpretation that often contradicts the Bible.
It is one story from start to finish.....and what an amazing story it is! It is all about God's reconciliation with his faithful, tried, tested and proven, human children.

It is also in his response to rebellion in both the spirit realm and the material realm that will settle the issues raised in Eden, once and for all. How God has handled this rebellion sets precedents for all eternity to come. If ever a rebel manifests himself again, there will be no need to prolong his existence. Free will can then continue to be the gift it was meant to be. God's sovereignty will have been vindicated for all time to come, so no rebel will ever cause trouble for God's children ever again.

 

[Twilight Hue]

How silly. In heaven you wont take stock of you life. It will be new every day. with no worries.




Rev 21:4 gives a partial list. l Rev 20:15, may be the best result.



What makes you think it will be boring? No one is heaven will ADD.

Hey!
What happened to free will? ;0)

 

[Neo Deist]

I wasn't aware you're a Biblical scholar capable of reading classical Hebrew and Koine Greek, and able to correctly assess early biblical writings. What are your scholarly publishings as of date?


So what? As it stands the scholars, translators, and publishers who put the present-day Bibles together have not seen fit to make any such distinction, leaving the word "heaven" to be defined as, among other things, the place where the saved will go after they die.


Not all Christians of course, but when Jesus says in Matthew 5:20,

For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.​

There's the firm indication that entering heaven is a very real possibility if one does X, Y, and Z.


.

I have a doctorate in theology. Nothing else needs to be said.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Consider: you finally die and find yourself in Heaven. A year goes by and you start taking stock of your life there.
What is your day-to-day existence like?
What do find that's keeping you from being bored, day after day after day---like forever?

To me, day-to-day existence in heaven would be like having your very own cubical to work out of:
Day-by-day each one would have two (2) busy (Not bored) responsible jobs to take care of: (Revelation 5:9-10)
1 ) there is the need for governmental responsibilities as 'kings' to take care of for people living on Earth.
2 ) there is the need for spiritual help as 'priests' for those living on Earth.
However, this would Not be forever because at the end of Jesus' millennial reign over Earth, then Jesus hands back God's kingdom to God - 1 Corinthians 15:24-26.
As to what those who are in heaven will be doing is for now unknown, but sure as Jesus was never bored they also will Not be bored.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Nope. You need to understand the verses in the original biblical languages, and not the butchered English translations. The Greek term for heaven actually has 3 meanings:

God's dwelling place
The cosmos
The sky (with the clouds)

Having said that, there is not a single verse that states that when Christians die, they go to Heaven (God's dwelling place).

Actually, the Bible is inconsistent when it comes to the afterlife. Jesus taught heaven and hell with the story of the rich man and Lazarus. He also told the thief on the cross that he would be in paradise with Christ that day. So Jesus appears to have taught something else and other Biblical writers believed otherwise. But who cares what Jesus had to say.

 

[psychoslice]

WE don't expect you to believe it, we KNOW you wont.

View attachment 15522

Well of course I don't lol.

 

[Skwim]

I have a doctorate in theology. Nothing else needs to be said.

For all I know you have a Th.D from Liberty Online University or Patriot Bible University, Kent Hovind's alma mater. So a whole lot more would need to be said before I can agree that "Nothing else needs to be said."


.

 

[Dawnofhope]

It is one story from start to finish.....and what an amazing story it is! It is all about God's reconciliation with his faithful, tried, tested and proven, human children.

I must say I like your emojis and I'm sure you are a very nice person so thank you for not being offended.

How did you read my comment that way?

I said nothing about judging anyone.

You asked me a question about judging people.

What makes people think that they are all going to heaven?
There are only a chosen few going to heaven to rule with Christ.

You might like to reflect that this sounds a little strange and judgemental. That's just me and maybe I read to much into it. I'm not offended by it and I'm pleased your not.

As to the number of those who go to heaven, the Revelation supplies a finite number....144,000. (Revelation 14:1-5)
It is God who chooses them, not any human.

As for this quote from the book of revelation, I would propose that there is a much better way of looking at it. I think the best foundation for properly understanding it goes back to the final talk Jesus gave to His disciples on the mount of Olives. In this way the words of Jesus are examined. This talk refers to the Abomination that leads to desolation in the book of Daniel. Jesus words provides a new understanding to the book of Daniel. From there going to the book of revelation as there are cross references as has suggested. Just a thought...

 

[Dawnofhope]

To me, Revelation is written in very-vivid word pictures, but that does Not mean it can't be understood.
As with the rest of John's writings, and the rest of Scripture, there are cross-reference verses with other Bible books such as Revelation 13 corresponding with Daniel 7:1-7 and Daniel 8:3-8; 20-25
The saints or holy ones posses the kingdom - Daniel 7:18; Luke 22:28-29
'Flesh' (physical) can Not inherit the kingdom - 1 Corinthians 15:50
So, those resurrected to heaven have a first or earlier resurrection - Revelation 20:6; 2:10
They have two (2) jobs to do according to Revelation 5:8-10. They serve as both: kings and priests.
There is No need for such jobs for those residing in heaven, but there is a need for mankind who live on Earth.
After Jesus, as Prince of Peace, ushers in global Peace on Earth among men of goodwill, then those in heaven will have governmental responsibilities as kings towards those living on Earth. They will also have spiritual duties as priests toward those who will inherit the Earth as Jesus promised at Matthew 5:5

So if flesh can not inherit the kingdom of earth how can His body have been lifted up into Heaven. I'm presuming with all these leaps of logic you believe in a physical resurrection.