Treatments of women

[linwood]

he just repeats himself.......repeatedly.

I just had to see this part quoted.

It gave me a giggle.

 

[gnostic]

Religion helps form the culture.

You really can`t entirely separate the two.

Not in my experience anyway.

Exactly.

And it's particularly true with Islam.

Islam permeate all part of their societies, and more so in their cultures.

What the Muslims really don't understand is that culture is the "way of life" or the "way to live". Islam dictate just about everything, from education to work, how they (particularly women) dress (or cover themselves), to how often they should pray and how, their law and customs, the way they treat people, politics, etc.

Islam interfered with everything. So when they tried to separate religion from culture, it would be like separating chicken from some more chickens.

 

[Zhakir]

Not culture,not the religion of islam.
If we are going to discuss , then lets discuss Quran and sunah,not cultures

 

[gnostic]

If some Muslims did rape some women so it's because they are sick, not because of their religion. The same can be said about any other religion.

Actually...most Abrahamic religions are sick.

Agnosticism is not a religion; it's just a concept. There is no creed or preaching of moral and sins, reward and punishment, heaven and hell, and all other excess baggage that go with religion.

Law, moral and education are external, and have nothing to do with agnosticism, but I think that a majority of agnosticism will obey the law, do what is ethically (or morally) right.

We don't have creed on how to treat women, but that doesn't mean we don't treat them right. To me, it is morally wrong that husband can punish a woman for disobedience, which your Qur'an say it is the privilege of the husband. And it has this stupid nonsense that man is a woman's protector, because he is the "stronger", hence he can boss her around.

If a woman is not in the mood for sex, then she shouldn't have to. They should only have sex when both partners are willing...but when it's not, the husband can use that stupid verse to punish a woman for disobedience. The wife is then virtually a sex slave and breeding cow to her husband. That's not equality....and it's certainly not

Several weeks ago, that stupid Afghan president introduce a law that a woman must have sex with her husband, regardless of what she want. And this law have the full supports of most of conservative Islamic clerics. That mean a husband can punish his wife if she say no to sex, and she will be held responsible for her refusal is the sort of lunacy of Islamic society.

To me, non-consensual sex is rape.

 

[gnostic]

Not culture,not the religion of islam.
If we are going to discuss , then lets discuss Quran and sunah,not cultures

Religion falls under the category of culture.

Culture is about how people live their life and what they believe.

And your Islam (your Qur'an and prophet) have been telling people what to believe and how they should live their life. Hence, it's culture.

How is it not?

 

[Peace]

Religion falls under the category of culture.

Culture is about how people live their life and what they believe.

And your Islam (your Qur'an and prophet) have been telling people what to believe and how they should live their life. Hence, it's culture.

How is it not?

What a logic is this your own definition? :areyoucra
Culture is not part of religion, it is part of the society. Yes Islam dictates every single thing because it is a way of life and we are happy with that and we would love to practice Islam from A to Z.
But to say that culture is part of religion, how is that? Have you seen Islamic countries practicing Islam 100%? Have you seen Islamic countries adopting Shari`a as their way of life? Where are these countries?
Cutlure is different than religion and evey country has its own culture.

 

[gnostic]

Culture is not part of religion, it is part of the society.

No. No. :no:

You got it wrong.

Religion is part of culture. Just the traditional way to eat, dress, art, music are part of culture.

However, in the case with Abrahamic religions (like Judaism and Islam), the religion can control what people do.

You've got it confused.

But to say that culture is part of religion, how is that? Have you seen Islamic countries practicing Islam 100%?

Don't be so naive.

Just because people or country don't practice Islam 100%, doesn't mean that religion doesn't direct the way you live.

If the Qur'an say you should pray 5 times a day, and you do so every single day, then the religion actually control the way you live, by making time each day to pray 5 times.

The Qur'an tell you to that a woman must obeyed her husband, so she does so.

In art, you not allow to depict your god or your prophet in any image (eg paintings), so you don't.

Do you seriously think that Islam tell people what people do or not to do, or how to act?

 

[Zhakir]

The point is that we should not judge islam by cultures,as long as they contradict with islam.
Any way use only Quran and Sunnah to judge islam.

 

[Peace]

No. No. :no:

You got it wrong.

Religion is part of culture. Just the traditional way to eat, dress, art, music are part of culture.

However, in the case with Abrahamic religions (like Judaism and Islam), the religion can control what people do.

You've got it confused.



Don't be so naive.

Just because people or country don't practice Islam 100%, doesn't mean that religion doesn't direct the way you live.

If the Qur'an say you should pray 5 times a day, and you do so every single day, then the religion actually control the way you live, by making time each day to pray 5 times.

The Qur'an tell you to that a woman must obeyed her husband, so she does so.

In art, you not allow to depict your god or your prophet in any image (eg paintings), so you don't.

Do you seriously think that Islam tell people what people do or not to do, or how to act?

As brother Zhakir said you should compare culture with religion to see if they are compatible. In case of Islam, how can you know whether the two compatible or not, you should compare what's in culture with the Quran the Sunnah if you find it there then you can say that's Islamic.

 

[gnostic]

Peace:

Are you truly saying that Islam have no absolute no influences to the society's culture (politics, laws, customs, education, in war, treatment of people, especially women, etc)?

And, please, don't say it's not 100% Islamic, because that's not what I'm asking you.

 

[JMorris]

i guess its just the culture in most muslim countries that is sexist.........
i wonder why that is?

 

[Zhakir]

Peace:

Are you truly saying that Islam have no absolute no influences to the society's culture (politics, laws, customs, education, in war, treatment of people, especially women, etc)?

And, please, don't say it's not 100% Islamic, because that's not what I'm asking you.

Islam does have a great influence.
Cultures Can either go with islam's sharia or aginst it.
When they go aginst it you can't judge islam by them.

Do you agree that islam should not be judge by those who are not practicing it?
Yes or no?

 

[gnostic]

Do you agree that islam should not be judge by those who are not practicing it?
Yes or no?

Yes and no.

It depends on if they are using Islam to enforce their agenda.

If a husband beat his wife for disobedience, because the Qur'an say that they can do so, then yes, Islam can be blamed for what it preaches.

Disobedience can mean anything and it open to interpretation, and does not necessarily just mean adultery. She could be disobedient that she's not in the mood for sex, when he wants it. Or it could mean something like she knows the right way to raise their children, but he will insist on doing the way that most likely wrong, so he could beat her for such disobedient.

Just because the Qur'an say that man is stronger, hence he is her protector, doesn't mean he is wiser than her.

The complete stupidity of verse 4:34 don't take into account that wisdom is often better than brute strength.

Must a woman obey her husband who's probably dumber than a doorknob?

Is brawn (strength) really better than wisdom????

And do you punish a woman for being smarter than her husband?

 

[linwood]

Do you agree that islam should not be judge by those who are not practicing it?

No, just as you don`t believe this is true.

If you did believe this was true you wouldn`t spend so much time judging other faiths so harshly.

If a non-Muslim shouldn`t judge Islam why is it ok with you that a non-Christian can judge Christianity?

Hypocrisy much?

 

[Zhakir]

If your answer is No to:

Do you agree that islam should not be judge by those who are not practicing it?

Then how about moving to anthor forum to discuss what they practice?
Here we discuss religion.

 

[darkendless]

Haha, i just saw something funny. I was just watching SBS news Australia, where a report on Sheik Omar describes how he wanted to change the wests perception of Islam. However, the interviewer from the west was a woman, and he refused to speak to her directly. What the hell? Why would he be uncomfortable speaking to a woman? Thats rediculous.

 

[JMorris]

because, if he laid eyes on her, he would be unable to resist raping her, DUH!

 

[gnostic]

Haha, i just saw something funny. I was just watching SBS news Australia, where a report on Sheik Omar describes how he wanted to change the wests perception of Islam. However, the interviewer from the west was a woman, and he refused to speak to her directly. What the hell? Why would he be uncomfortable speaking to a woman? Thats rediculous.

Could be any number of factors.

• Could be because he is racist.
• Could be because he is a sexist.
• Could be a bit of both (from above).
• Could simply be that he hate women.
• Could be that she didn't wear a proper headdress.
• Could be some body's parts were exposed, like her calves or elbows. I didn't see such interview. Was she properly dressed in Muslim fashion?
• Could be that he is shy.

Although I have SBS, I didn't see the interview. Was he eventually interviewed?

In any case, I think there a lot more changes to be done, if he seriously want us to change our perception towards Islam.

 

[Peace]

Peace:

Are you truly saying that Islam have no absolute no influences to the society's culture (politics, laws, customs, education, in war, treatment of people, especially women, etc)?

And, please, don't say it's not 100% Islamic, because that's not what I'm asking you.

No I am not saying that culture is not influenced by Islam. However, not everything that we see in our "Islamic" cultures are truly Islamic and agree with Islam.

 

[gnostic]

However, not everything that we see in our "Islamic" cultures are truly Islamic and agree with Islam.

Ok, I can accept this statement, which is reasonable and logical. Islam can influence culture to an extent.

Do you think that even Muslims, with even the best intention, also make mistake what's Islamic and what's not Islamic?

We non-Muslims based on what Muslims say or do, and may not understand what is or is not Islamic, but it would seem that even pious Muslims also mistakes too, which is worse, really.... The reason what I am getting at, being that Muslims also have the tendency to either misunderstand, and hence mis-represent Islam, in some cases, in the worse possible light. Muslims can be Islam's worse enemy.

The same could be said of Christianity too. The Christians have in the past have gone against Jesus' teaching. Jesus was quite clear that they (Christians) should not persecute others...but that has been ignored, taking their brutal treatments on the so-called heretics and witches for example. Or the few Crusades, was based on misguided view that they were doing the right thing (Christian thing).

Christians and Muslims are alike, and have more in common than what they differ.