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Why should the world?

Kangaroo Feathers

Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
What history are you trying to revise?
Popular Hollywood "history". It is a fact the back of the German military was broken on the Russian front at places like Stalingrad and Kursk. Yes, America contributed, no one is saying otherwise, but the mantra-like "America defeated the Germans for the rest of the world" is so erroneous as to be false. As well as ignoring the blunt fact that most of the fighting and dying was done by Russians, it also handily ignores the contribution of the other allies, particularly the British Commonwealth forces. There were 2 million Americans who served in Europe, Canada sent a million herself. Australia, with a population of just 7 million, had a million people serve in the military in some capacity during the war!

So yeah, America played a part, sure, an important part, no one is suggesting otherwise. But the John Wayne "America single handedly saved the World from the NAZIs" is bull****.

And I reiterate, the Second World War was 80 years ago. Thanks for your contribution. But it's not a get out of gaol free card when it comes to the basic conventions of decency and conduct for the rest of time.
 

shmogie

Well-Known Member
What history are you trying to revise?
It is called an ex pat American who, in true liberal fashion, hates his country.

Britain would have starved to death if we hadn´t provided them food before we entered,ditto for military equipment, which we supplied by the thousands of tons to Russia as well. So, without us, Britain could not invade by themselves, and the German troops on the Western Front would have been in the East.

While all this was going on, we were also Fighting the empire of Japan, essentially single handed.

The night time bombing of the Brits and the daytime bombing by us directly affected the equipment and supplies that could be supplied to German troops in Russia. Without the bombing, the German troops would have been more able to stand up to the Russian winter.

If we were not in the war, Germany would have defeated Russia. Superior soldiers, superior equipment, superior leadership.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
If there wasn't the second front provided by the Americans and the Allies, the Russians would have starved to death before they could dream of reaching Berlin.

Trade existed prior to US entry to the war. You are conflating a lack of entry with isolation. Lend-lease was established before entry in march 41. Most of the US pre-war action in the Atlantic was designed to bait Germany into another Lusitania. Japan merely did what the US was waiting for, create a pretext for self-defense. Hence why it traded with the UK regardless of German threats. The US held the cards.
 
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Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
Wh6 should the world be doing as US want is to do? Why do America think they have so much power over the other countries?

Because we defend our allies.

Or

We are asked to intervene.

It's the burden of being the most powerful country in the world.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
War seems to be a popular business.
I do realise that most Americans are probably happy to mind their own business.
Still, America still has the reputation as “World Police.” And it’s not just because of the South Park creators.

Maybe so. But when I look at the world today, it's not so much a matter of a single country - or even a few large "superpowers" - calling the shots. It's more like factions - factions within countries which have like-minded allies in other countries.

All that patriotic sloganism and symbolism - along with American exceptionalism - that's just so much bunkum for the masses, just to get them to go along with it. And that also lets other countries and their governments off the hook, so they can tell their own people "You see? It's not us, it's those bloody Yanks! But we're just going along with them...just because."

Some factions, both outside of America and within America, gain a great deal from these "police" activities that go on. Yet most Americans really don't benefit one iota - and America as a whole ends up losing money on all this. Someone is making money on this, but it isn't most Americans - or even America as a nation. It's not even done "for the glory of the empire," which would at least be something to take pride in.
 

Ponder This

Well-Known Member
Why should the world be doing as US want is to do? Why do America think they have so much power over the other countries?

I'm pretty sure the world can choose to do as it desires to do. There's nothing wrong with the US saying what it thinks the world should do or advocating for it's proper interests... Is there?
After all, we can ask the mirror question: Why should the US do as the world wants it to do? Does the "world" think it has so much power over each country?

We can also ask the question of Russia or China or ... Norway. And what can we say? It's a philosophical musing lacking contextualization.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
I'm pretty sure the world can choose to do as it desires to do. There's nothing wrong with the US saying what it thinks the world should do or advocating for it's proper interests... Is there?
After all, we can ask the mirror question: Why should the US do as the world wants it to do? Does the "world" think it has so much power over each country?

We can also ask the question of Russia or China or ... Norway. And what can we say? It's a philosophical musing lacking contextualization.
My reason for the OP was because of the idiotic war game US are doing all over the world. And how they wish to tell other countries what they can and can not do. Example being US telling what Iran can and can not do, or the different countries in the Middle east region.
When it comes to Norway where i live, because of Nato we must agree to have American troops placed here, something i find idiotic. America is just a country in the world, and they should be focusing on fixing their own problems before trying to fix others with bombing them to hell
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Popular Hollywood "history". It is a fact the back of the German military was broken on the Russian front at places like Stalingrad and Kursk. Yes, America contributed, no one is saying otherwise, but the mantra-like "America defeated the Germans for the rest of the world" is so erroneous as to be false. As well as ignoring the blunt fact that most of the fighting and dying was done by Russians, it also handily ignores the contribution of the other allies, particularly the British Commonwealth forces. There were 2 million Americans who served in Europe, Canada sent a million herself. Australia, with a population of just 7 million, had a million people serve in the military in some capacity during the war!

So yeah, America played a part, sure, an important part, no one is suggesting otherwise. But the John Wayne "America single handedly saved the World from the NAZIs" is bull****.

I don't think the claim is about America "single-handedly" saving the world from the Nazis.

Part of the reason why Americans are taught this decidedly pro-American view of history is so that the powers that be can appeal to American pride and patriotism so the people will continue supporting our militaristic policies.

The general perception is that many of our allies are so weak that they can't defend themselves, which feeds into the notion that American involvement is indispensable to world security. It puts an undue burden and obligation on America that "if not us, then who?"

On paper, Britain and France had Germany outnumbered and outgunned, so they should have defeated the Germans in 1939-40. The fact that they were defeated so quickly and so handily in the Battle of France made the Germans look unstoppable, in addition to making France and Britain look impotent. The first six months of Barbarossa also fed into this idea that the Germans were an unstoppable juggernaut.

And I reiterate, the Second World War was 80 years ago. Thanks for your contribution. But it's not a get out of gaol free card when it comes to the basic conventions of decency and conduct for the rest of time.

It doesn't lessen the perceived necessity of American involvement, though.

After WW2, being that we were still part of the Allies who were still facing problems on a global level, Americans felt obligated to continue to prop up the world system which had been previously managed mainly by the French and the British. This expanded the nature and scope of American foreign policy and security aspirations into areas formerly under Anglo-French control - in Southeast Asia, the Middle East, Africa - all of which were actively resisting colonial control, with the Soviets seeing an opportunity to fill the power vacuum that was left after WW2.

But even that's no longer relevant in today's world, so one might still wonder: Why is America still involved all over the world? Again, it's because of the ongoing perceptions that much of the world is still chaotic, unstable, and threatened by tyranny, while the so-called "good" countries are still viewed as too weak or short-sighted to be able to defend themselves. As a result, American involvement is deemed "indispensable" and "vital" to world stability.

Among Americans, there's a certain peer pressure and guilt complex at work, where failure to support American militarism is deemed "cowardly" and tantamount to turning our backs on innocent women and children being tortured to death. Those who oppose US militarism are often considered too naive and unaware of just how "evil" and "treacherous" our adversaries can be.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
My reason for the OP was because of the idiotic war game US are doing all over the world. And how they wish to tell other countries what they can and can not do. Example being US telling what Iran can and can not do, or the different countries in the Middle east region.
When it comes to Norway where i live, because of Nato we must agree to have American troops placed here, something i find idiotic. America is just a country in the world, and they should be focusing on fixing their own problems before trying to fix others with bombing them to hell

Actually, it's not entirely true that NATO membership requires your country to have American troops placed there. France was able to successfully evict US troops from their soil, while still remaining a nominal member of NATO. They still supported the Western alliance, but they refused to become a puppet or satellite of the United States. Other countries within NATO have the same option, if they choose to exercise it. It's really up to them.

The reason why America is involved in the Middle East is because the European countries which used to be in charge of the Middle East pretty much botched it. Many of these places where America has been involved - from Africa to Southeast Asia - were all under European hegemony at some point, and they screwed it up.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Actually, it's not entirely true that NATO membership requires your country to have American troops placed there. France was able to successfully evict US troops from their soil, while still remaining a nominal member of NATO. They still supported the Western alliance, but they refused to become a puppet or satellite of the United States. Other countries within NATO have the same option, if they choose to exercise it. It's really up to them.

The reason why America is involved in the Middle East is because the European countries which used to be in charge of the Middle East pretty much botched it. Many of these places where America has been involved - from Africa to Southeast Asia - were all under European hegemony at some point, and they screwed it up.
Norway is unfortunatly a puppet for US when it comes to military
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
My reason for the OP was because of the idiotic war game US are doing all over the world. And how they wish to tell other countries what they can and can not do. Example being US telling what Iran can and can not do, or the different countries in the Middle east region.
When it comes to Norway where i live, because of Nato we must agree to have American troops placed here, something i find idiotic. America is just a country in the world, and they should be focusing on fixing their own problems before trying to fix others with bombing them to hell


But...but...bombing them to hell seems to make a statement that is not misunderstood...
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Because the rest of the world, for the most part, counts on us to save their butts from predator countries. As for me, I'd just as soon kept our blood and treasure here in the US rather then spend it on very ungrateful regimes. BTW, if it wasn't for the US stepping in not that many years ago, most of the European types would be speaking with noticeable German accent.

Stepping in? When both Japan and Germany declared war on the US they had to come down off the fence.

Then, and only then did you step in and help
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Norway is unfortunatly a puppet for US when it comes to military

All your government has to do is make an official request for US troops to leave, and our government would have no other choice but to comply. Ultimately, it's up to your own government and the people who elected it to make that decision.

Since you can speak so freely and openly about it, then it appears that the puppet's eyes are open, so what are you waiting for? Why blame Americans for something that's ultimately up to your own government and people?
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
But...but....the ones on the receiving end are no longer a threat....
But.... America use force to get it their way without checking the facts first. The strange thing is that after soon 20 years in Afghanistan it is worse then ever, because America invaded after they was so sure to find Bin laden there in 2001. strange but he was not even in Afghanistan, So i belive they went in there with false flag
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
Stepping in? When both Japan and Germany declared war on the US they had to come down off the fence.

Then, and only then did you step in and help

You might want to revisit the history of war before we stepped in. Europe was pretty much under Hitler's boot (and of course we all remember how France stood up in defiance..). England was barely hanging on. As far as Japan went, they ruled China and the western Pacific. True, it took awhile before the US came to their senses, but the world was on the ropes by then. The Axis powers would not have been defeated if the US had not geared up to kick butt.
 
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