Why not a God like in "Minority Report"?

[Beaudreaux]

"Minority Report" was an excellent movie. If you haven't seen the movie, expand the summary below.

Spoiler: Summary of "Minority Report" for those who haven't seen it.

The movie "Minority Report" takes place in a future where crimes are psychically predicted. When a crime is about to occur, officers from the "Pre Crime" unit are provided with the psychic vision that predicted the crime and use it to figure out who is going to commit the crime and where it will take place. They then speed to the scene of the "future" crime and arrest the person before they commit the act. This prevents the murder/rape/other-violent-crime from happening and punishes the person who undoubtedly would have commited the crime had they not been stopped.

Why wouldn't God operate in the way the Pre-Crime unit does? Hear me out. Right now, Christians tell me that God cannot prevent things like rape from happening because it would abridge humanity's free will. But what if God allowed rapists to choose to rape, but stopped them just before they commited the rape, like a Pre-Crime unit would? This would protect the rape victim's free will (who would otherwise have it abridged by the rapist), would allow the rapist to excercise his free will and would protect God's creation from the pain and suffering that men do to each other now.

To summarize, more free will than the status quo, far less pain and suffering than the status quo, and cool psychic children (just kidding on #3). So, why can't an all powerful, all loving God get this done?

 

[bobhikes]

In the story of the bible we created our own fate. We must win back God. God does not have to win us back. Think of it this way your father tells you not to smoke you decide to smoke. Fine now when ever you smoke you will do it outside my house. This is my house there is no smoking in my house. You decide to smoke develope lung cancer and die. Is that your fathers fault. Futher more before you died you got married and had kids. Your father was always against your smoking he implied it would cause other problems then just yours. You didn't like smoking outside and smoked inside your own house. One of your kids developed emphasima because of the second hand smoke. Is that your fathers fault.

Even it you don't believe the above. When do you decide the guy will not change his mind don't people at the last second walk away. A movie is fictious a lot of things that work in them will not work in real life.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Beaudreaux,
You mention Stopping Rape just before it happens?
But who knows The victim does not want it to Stop at that moment?
Any stats on that?

Love & rgds

 

[Beaudreaux]

Think of it this way your father tells you not to smoke you decide to smoke. Fine now when ever you smoke you will do it outside my house. This is my house there is no smoking in my house. You decide to smoke develope lung cancer and die. Is that your fathers fault.

Nope. You are only hurting yourself there. No question.

Futher more before you died you got married and had kids. Your father was always against your smoking he implied it would cause other problems then just yours. You didn't like smoking outside and smoked inside your own house. One of your kids developed emphasima because of the second hand smoke. Is that your fathers fault.

If your father was all powerful and could have prevented that emphysema, then it would be his fault he did not prevent it. Here is a question for you, though.

If you saw a man about to shoot an innocent person, and you could stop him, would you?

Even it you don't believe the above. When do you decide the guy will not change his mind don't people at the last second walk away. A movie is fictious a lot of things that work in them will not work in real life.

Yeah...you'd have to know EVERYTHING to be able to do something like that.

 

[Beaudreaux]

But who knows The victim does not want it to Stop at that moment?
Any stats on that?

Well, if God knows everything, then HE knows.

 

[GiantHouseKey]

Greetings

Minority Report is quite possibly my favourite movie of all time.

I think this issue is presented and concluded incredibly well in the film. To which end, i'm going to argue the point put forward in the film: The only certainty is uncertainty. By which I mean, it's not certain that the person will always commit the crime. However, the difference between Pre-crime and God (Omniscient) is that God can supposedly 'know' the future, rather than precogs who just 'predict' the future. Which means God would always know. Which means that God already knows for certain who's going to commit a crime (Which is a ridiculous notion).

Back to comparison to the film, would God use halos that rendered the criminal comatose? How would it work? Would said criminal be stopped? If so, how is that the ability to exercise the criminal's free will?

But my answer is, in reality, 'Such a God does not exist'.

By the way, in Minority Report, does it give a legitimate reason why they're all bald?

GhK.

 

[Storm]

Beaudereaux, can you honestly tell me that you like the idea of thought police? Because, frankly, the idea strikes me as even more horrific than the evil in the world.

 

[tomspug]

In the story of the bible we created our own fate. We must win back God. God does not have to win us back.

No. The story of the bible is that we created our own fate. We CANNOT win back God, therefore God, out of love, chooses to win us back.

 

[bobhikes]

Nope. You are only hurting yourself there. No question.

If your father was all powerful and could have prevented that emphysema, then it would be his fault he did not prevent it. Here is a question for you, though.

Your father could of had you declared a bad parent and sicked DYFS on you or taken away the kids he had the opportunaty. He chooses to let you live your life.

What I would do has no meaning you are asking why god doesn't get involved not why I do or don't.

How's this then you want to believe that if he interfers you still have free will. God gives you his rules and wants you to follow them. Ok I know you'll say they are impossible to follow. That is your fault because you ate from the tree of knowledge and unlike god can not deal with bad.

All your life you break his rules. When does he say that enough you can't break any of these rules anymore. Of course everyone would want him to come down on Murder, Rape, and any form of improper death. But what about the things that cause death like smoking I don't think you should do it anywhere around me. And what about religions where death is a punishment. It is the end of this life and if you lived properly you get to see god and be happy forever. So what is bad or good by Gods standards are they the same as ours.

Last attempt. A women is sleeping around with different men all the time. She avoids church like the plage. She curses and is mean to everyone. She is unhappy in life. She is walking down the street no hurting anyone. Not dressed outlandishly. Not happy kinda down trodded and a Man jumps out of the bushes to rape her. What should you do. God knows and see's all. This women life will be better after the rape. She will go through a life altering set of circumstances and be much happier and help others because of this travesty.

You can not know the outcome of any meeting of chance. Because to you it is horrible does not mean good will come from it. Adamsfather who tries to find all the missing kids he can and is sucessful at it only came about because of his personal tradgey. I am sorry for him but glad he chose to do what he did because of it.

 

[Storm]

Much as I disagree with Beaudreaux's argument, your characterization of rape as beneficial is sickening.

 

[bobhikes]

Much as I disagree with Beaudreaux's argument, your characterization of rape as beneficial is sickening.

I do not understand why. Tradegy is all around and at times it produces people that are changed for the better and extremely happy because of it.

I am not advacating rape or anything like. I am observering why a god who see's everything and knows all could allow it. Can you produce another reason. I can but it will be much worse.

 

[Storm]

I do not understand why.

That's even more sickening.

 

[bobhikes]

That's even more sickening.

The question is why god would allow rape. As it is with your One liners you are saying nothing. Just I believe you are wrong. Why am I wrong what is the answer. I have not heard one from us. Is there no answer, Is there no God I'm fine with that.

This is not what I would do. I can not be offended by anything you say this is my opinion of why God would allow it. Do you have an opinion or is just the word rape sick in your mind.

 

[Storm]

The question is why god would allow rape. As it is with your One liners you are saying nothing. Just I believe you are wrong. Why am I wrong what is the answer. I have not heard one from us. Is there no answer, Is there no God I'm fine with that.

This is not what I would do. I can not be offended by anything you say this is my opinion of why God would allow it. Do you have an opinion or is just the word rape sick in your mind.

I'm a rape survivor, take a guess. As for your idiotic question of whether I have an opinion, I've voiced it quite bluntly, twice.

 

[Mister Emu]

I've seen some stuff, but rape characterized as a benefit... that takes it...

In my theology God know the "future" because there is no future, He exists in all times simultaneously... He knows what we are going to do, because we have laready done it...

 

[bobhikes]

I'm a rape survivor, take a guess. As for your idiotic question of whether I have an opinion, I've voiced it quite bluntly, twice.

I am glad you are doing well. I look back the threads and other than not agreeing I do not see an opinion on as to why god would allow rape.

I think you believe I mean it is why god always allows rape that is not the case. It is a reason for why it could be allowed.

I have always believed that God allows us to live our lives so that we can prove we are good. He already rejected my first choice this is my second. I also have a third. This is my last attempt to reconcil with you may the rest of your life be filled with peace and happiness.

 

[fantome profane]

Much as I disagree with Beaudreaux's argument, your characterization of rape as beneficial is sickening.

I absolutely agree with you. This is the kind of warped thinking that results when people are desperately trying to justify the evil we see with the concept of an omnipotent benevolent “God”. We constantly see rationalizations that people either deserve pain suffering and death or that somehow they benefit from injustice. And the saddest most sickening thing is the great amount of additional evil that comes simply from people trying to rationalize evil.

 

[Beaudreaux]

Beaudereaux, can you honestly tell me that you like the idea of thought police? Because, frankly, the idea strikes me as even more horrific than the evil in the world.

But since this is God, and he's omniscient, it wouldn't be thought police. It would be ACTION police. He would know, for certain, if someone was about to commit a horrible crime.

 

[Storm]

But since this is God, and he's omniscient, it wouldn't be thought police. It would be ACTION police. He would know, for certain, if someone was about to commit a horrible crime.

To-may-to, to-mah-to. You didn't answer the question.

 

[Beaudreaux]

Your father could of had you declared a bad parent and sicked DYFS on you or taken away the kids he had the opportunaty. He chooses to let you live your life.

My father is not God. My father could only SUSPECT that my behavior would kill my innocent children. God would KNOW.

What I would do has no meaning you are asking why god doesn't get involved not why I do or don't.

Right actions are right actions, whether they are performed by God or humans, wouldn't you agree? If it is wrong for ME to stand by and watch someone get raped when I could prevent it, how is it not wrong for God?

How's this then you want to believe that if he interfers you still have free will.

If a man chooses, through his free will, to rape a woman, God would know this BEFORE he followed through on that choice. He could stop it without abridging the man's free will.

God gives you his rules and wants you to follow them. Ok I know you'll say they are impossible to follow. That is your fault because you ate from the tree of knowledge and unlike god can not deal with bad.

I didn't eat from no tree. Did you?

Last attempt. A women is sleeping around with different men all the time. She avoids church like the plage. She curses and is mean to everyone. She is unhappy in life. She is walking down the street no hurting anyone. Not dressed outlandishly. Not happy kinda down trodded and a Man jumps out of the bushes to rape her. What should you do. God knows and see's all. This women life will be better after the rape. She will go through a life altering set of circumstances and be much happier and help others because of this travesty.

Wait....are you actually saying that it is sometimes GOOD for a woman to be raped?!!?! Seriously? God want's that to happen sometimes?

You can not know the outcome of any meeting of chance.

But God knows, doesn't he?