Why not a God like in "Minority Report"?

[Beaudreaux]

I do not understand why. Tradegy is all around and at times it produces people that are changed for the better and extremely happy because of it.

You do not see why rape is never a good thing? Really???

I am not advacating rape or anything like.

Why not? If it is sometimes good, why not advocate the good rapes? (Can't believe I just typed that sentence....this whole argument of yours is pretty sickening...)

 

[Beaudreaux]

I'm a rape survivor, take a guess. As for your idiotic question of whether I have an opinion, I've voiced it quite bluntly, twice.

Was this one of the good rapes or the bad rapes? [searching desperately for a throuwing up icon..]

First of all, I am SO sorry to hear that this happened to you, Storm. Second, this is the kind of messed up logic that comes from trying to defend an omnimax God in a world where such tragedies happen.

 

[DallasApple]

Last attempt. A women is sleeping around with different men all the time. She avoids church like the plage. She curses and is mean to everyone. She is unhappy in life. She is walking down the street no hurting anyone. Not dressed outlandishly. Not happy kinda down trodded and a Man jumps out of the bushes to rape her. What should you do. God knows and see's all. This women life will be better after the rape. She will go through a life altering set of circumstances and be much happier and help others because of this travesty.

Grotesque.That somehow this woman being raped was a remedy for her "uhappy" state of being is repulsive.Its more likely..the rape could drive her into a state of suicidal depression..Especially if after the rape she was counseled by someone like you..Who I noticed set up her story as beign someone who was sexually permiscuous..and being raped cured her of her sexual sin.

Its the other way around bucko..some women(and men) after being sexually abused can become permiscous..In fact a huge percentage of prostitues and porn stars have been sexually abused..in the past..Or they climb in a hole and become unable to function sexually at all for extended periods of time and possibly for life.

Your "assumption" that rape is EVER any kind of "cure is ignorant.

Im not saying this woman couldnt overcome..and survive and "use" her TRADGEDY to help others.But I dare you to find one woman (or man) that would reflect back on beign raped and claim because of it they went from "unhappy" to "happy"..Or one rape victim that would say it was "worth it" and would do it over again for the "benefits" they gained out of it.

Its almost as if you are saying unhappy sexually permiscous women who are raped get what they deserve and "learn their lesson"...As if she wouldnt have been raped in the first place had she been a virgin because God wouldnt have needed to "teach" her that lesson.

Love

Dallas

 

[Beaudreaux]

Grotesque.That somehow this woman being raped was a remedy for her "uhappy" state of being is repulsive.Its more likely..the rape could drive her into a state of suicidal depression..Especially if after the rape she was counseled by someone like you..Who I noticed set up her story as beign someone who was sexually permiscuous..and being raped cured her of her sexual sin.

Its the other way around bucko..some women(and men) after being sexually abused can become permiscous..In fact a huge percentage of prostitues and porn stars have been sexually abused..in the past..Or they climb in a hole and become unable to function sexually at all for extended periods of time and possibly for life.

Your "assumption" that rape is EVER any kind of "cure is ignorant.

Im not saying this woman couldnt overcome..and survive and "use" her TRADGEDY to help others.But I dare you to find one woman (or man) that would reflect back on beign raped and claim because of it they went from "unhappy" to "happy"..Or one rape victim that would say it was "worth it" and would do it over again for the "benefits" they gained out of it.

Its almost as if you are saying unhappy sexually permiscous women who are raped get what they deserve and "learn their lesson"...As if she wouldnt have been raped in the first place had she been a virgin because God wouldnt have needed to "teach" her that lesson.

Love

Dallas

OK, so we've pretty much ganged up on the ludicrous notion that rape is sometimes a good thing. If I can direct us back to the OP...


A man, of his own free will, decides he's going to rape a woman. The moment before he puts that choice into action, God could stop him. If He did:

• He would not be abridging the man's free will. The man was free to make that heinous decision.
• He would be protecting the free will of the victim since, by definition, no one "chooses" to be raped.
• He would be preventing human suffering.

If He did not:

• He would be standing by and watching a horrible atrocity being commited while being fully capable of stopping it.

Since God clearly does not stop rapes, and clearly He could do so without abridging free will, what can we say about God? I think it's clear that the kindest thing we can say about Him is that He's not a very nice person...

 

[DallasApple]

Why not? If it is sometimes good, why not advocate the good rapes? (Can't believe I just typed that sentence....this whole argument of yours is pretty sickening...)

The "good rapes" the kind that make unhappy women happy..are the ones that happen to the sluts that are sleeping around already..Dont you get it?..Then after she is raped..she realizes the value of her sexuality..and becomes a happy nun..who counsels all the rest of the sluts not to throw their bodies around like that else they might get what they deserve too.

Its rape prevention 101..

Love

Dallas

 

[Beaudreaux]

The "good rapes" the kind that make unhappy women happy..are the ones that happen to the sluts that are sleeping around already..Dont you get it?..Then after she is raped..she realizes the value of her sexuality..and becomes a happy nun..who counsels all the rest of the sluts not to throw their bodies around like that else they might get what they deserve too.

Its rape prevention 101..

Love

Dallas

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. I see. Sort of a "better life through forced sexual assault" program. I'll bet a lot of fathers out there are hoping their daughters get raped. That's a life lesson you just can't buy.
[note to admins: Please make a vomit icon available. Nothing else is appropriate for this nonsense.]

 

[DallasApple]

Since God clearly does not stop rapes, and clearly He could do so without abridging free will, what can we say about God? I think it's clear that the kindest thing we can say about Him is that He's not a very nice person...

God doesnt stop a lot of human suffering.

Maybe He's letting us fight it out ourselves for some reason I dont know.Maybe He wants us to try and figure out how to get along and stop hurting each other..Rather than doing it for us.

I dont know..Maybe I never will.

Love

Dallas

 

[fantome profane]

OK, so we've pretty much ganged up on the ludicrous notion that rape is sometimes a good thing. If I can direct us back to the OP...




A man, of his own free will, decides he's going to rape a woman. The moment before he puts that choice into action, God could stop him. If He did:

• He would not be abridging the man's free will. The man was free to make that heinous decision.
• He would be protecting the free will of the victim since, by definition, no one "chooses" to be raped.
• He would be preventing human suffering.

If He did not:

• He would be standing by and watching a horrible atrocity being commited while being fully capable of stopping it.

Since God clearly does not stop rapes, and clearly He could do so without abridging free will, what can we say about God? I think it's clear that the kindest thing we can say about Him is that He's not a very nice person...

Alright, trying to get back to the OP. If “God” interfered he would be denying the free will of the rapist. If “God” does not interfere “God” is allowing the rapist to deny free will to the victim. Either way free will is being denied.

The point should be however that we if we are moral individuals that although we should respect the free will and autonomy of other individuals there are absolutely times when we must deny others the free exercise of their will. If I had knowledge that someone was going to commit rape, murder, or any kind of physical abuse should I interfere? Would it be moral for me to prevent the rape? Would it be moral of me not to prevent the rape? I think that most people would consider me terribly immoral if I did not do everything within my power to protect the innocent victim.

Now the question is should we hold “God” to a lesser standard of moral responsibility than we hold each other?

 

[bobhikes]

I never said rape was a good thing. I did say good could come from it. Good could come from anything. I am sorry if you feel slighted by this.

Peace and love to you all.

 

[GiantHouseKey]

Personally i'm pretty sure this sort of God is imaginary. However, if such a God does exist, wouldn't the same rules that apply to any other 'evil' would be in place? Why is rape a special case? God allows man to do as they will, and they will be judged after they die.

If God does exist, why would he individually intervene? Thousands and Thousands of people each day are murdered, raped, abused or opressed every day, so why would one person getting raped be so important to him?

This thread strengthens my stance on the void concept of Good and Evil.

GhK.

 

[DallasApple]

I never said rape was a good thing. I did say good could come from it. Good could come from anything. I am sorry if you feel slighted by this.

Peace and love to you all.

I think the only possible "good" that could come from any specific woman being raped..Is she is able to succcesfully ID the monster..and have him locked behind bars so he cant do that to another woman.

I know nothing "good" came out of it for me thats for sure.

Peace and Love to you as well...

Love

Dallas

 

[DallasApple]

Thousands and Thousands of people each day are murdered, raped, abused or opressed every day, so why would one person getting raped be so important to him?

Littel babies are dying of dehydration and starvation while being stalked by vultures sensing they are near death.

But Im sure something "good" will come of it.I KNOW !! The vulture gets a meal for the day!!

Love

Dallas

 

[DallasApple]

Why is rape a special case?

Its a special case because God DIDNT intervene..So an unhappy tramp..who was mean and sad..could become happy and pure with a new outlook on life and make lemonaide out of lemons.

Love

Dallas

 

[bobhikes]

Personally i'm pretty sure this sort of God is imaginary. However, if such a God does exist, wouldn't the same rules that apply to any other 'evil' would be in place? Why is rape a special case? God allows man to do as they will, and they will be judged after they die.

If God does exist, why would he individually intervene? Thousands and Thousands of people each day are murdered, raped, abused or opressed every day, so why would one person getting raped be so important to him?

This thread strengthens my stance on the void concept of Good and Evil.

GhK.

Thanks

 

[GiantHouseKey]

Littel babies are dying of dehydration and starvation while being stalked by vultures sensing they are near death.

Yep, that is also true. Wanna have a go at justifying this? I can do it in 4 short words. How many will it take you?

God made vultures eh?

But Im sure something "good" will come of it.I KNOW !! The vulture gets a meal for the day!!

Why should vultures starve?
Are you going to tell me there's something more important about man? Vultures are animals, Man are animals. Man eats animals, Vultures eat animals. Can you see where i'm going with this?
I give to charities to help protect and feed starving children in third world countries, and I would love to go on aid missions, and I hate to see any person made to suffer through no fault of their own. But I think the fact that it happens only proves to me that God either doesn't exist (My personal favourite) or that God isn't omnibenevolent AND/OR omnipotent.

Its a special case because God DIDNT intervene..So an unhappy tramp..who was mean and sad..could become happy and pure with a new outlook on life and make lemonaide out of lemons.

Yeah...this is getting pretty old now...
Im not sure whether bobhikes believes in God or not, but he's trying to justify YOUR God, even though he may be making a pig's ear of it, and making an arguement which you (And also I) don't agree with. In fact, i'd bet (Sorry if im wrong) that he doesn't even agree with the arguement. You don't have to agree with something to argue it.

In any case he's made a better go at it than most people here who are ganging up on him, regardless of how sick you might consider his arguement. Wow, God sure fires people up, doesn't he?

(Yeah, Im the sort that back the underdog and lose all my money )

GhK.

 

[DallasApple]

Yeah...this is getting pretty old now...
Im not sure whether bobhikes believes in God or not, but he's trying to justify YOUR God,

But I dont need Bob to justify MY GOD..

I understand his (Bobs)"concept"..

Are you going to tell me there's something more important about man?

Yes I am..Im going to tell you that..At least Im going to tell you that IM more important than a vulture..And so are you..If a vulture was trying to peck at your half dead flesh I would kill it and save you...

Yeah...this is getting pretty old now...

Be raped and then say that..or maybe you have been and that is why you are so "not happy".

In any case he's made a better go at it than most people here who are ganging up on him, regardless of how sick you might consider his arguement. Wow, God sure fires people up, doesn't he?

Im not ganging up on him..Any more than I'de be ganged up on if I said someones child was kidnapped and raped and murdered..because they never took them to the park..and after their child was murdured they were "happy" and were able to "help" others and thats the good that came out of it.

Love

Dallas

 

[Storm]

First of all, I am SO sorry to hear that this happened to you, Storm.

Thank you.

Second, this is the kind of messed up logic that comes from trying to defend an omnimax God in a world where such tragedies happen.

Well, I have mixed feelings on this. Does the fact that Bob made the argument in the most disgusting way possible invalidate the argument? Did he even make the argument, even if buried under the repulsive implication that some women deserve to be raped? I don't think so.

 

[GiantHouseKey]

Yes I am..Im going to tell you that..At least Im going to tell you that IM more important than a vulture..And so are you..If a vulture was trying to peck at your half dead flesh I would kill it and save you...

Of course YOU think that YOU are more important than a vulture. And thank you for saying that I am more important than a vulture. However, this is all subjective, and I would hope that if any animal, human or otherwise, was to attack me and leave me half dead that you would save me, because I value my life more than anything.

By in my world, vultures and humans are both equally important. My belief system and yours are different, and I hope very much that you are right, because my system is a lot colder.

Be raped and then say that..or maybe you have been and that is why you are so "not happy".

Thanks for the invitation but it's legally impossible for me to be raped.
You're simply talking about the negative effects of rape on the victim. Universally, or at least in my mind, any 'good' that may come of rape are is not the same as saying that being raped is good. I'm sure you understand that bobhikes is not saying that, right?

So if a hypothetical person had the rapist's child, as bad as the act itself was, does the child not count as being something 'good' to come out of it? Would the child be considered to be 'evil'?
And of course, I totally agree that rape is horrific (And i've never experienced how horrific it truely it).

There's more from my belief system, but i'd rather not say, due to your belief system being so warm compared to mine. And it would offend people, which I hate doing.

Im not ganging up on him..Any more than I'de be ganged up on if I said someones child was kidnapped and raped and murdered..because they never took them to the park..and after their child was murdured they were "happy" and were able to "help" others and thats the good that came out of it.

I understand your arguement, and I totally agree with it. But as i've said before, I don't have to agree with an arguement to understand it. And as i've also said, I back the underdog and lose my money.

GhK.

 

[GiantHouseKey]

Second, this is the kind of messed up logic that comes from trying to defend an omnimax God in a world where such tragedies happen.

Agreed (Even though this has been said and worded slightly differently just before you posted it ). That's the problem with the idea of the omnimax God. Even Jesus agreed with me that the christian message is not going to make everybody happy. I very much hope that christianity is the truth, because otherwise it's caused a lot of pain and suffering (Yeah, think about that) that needn't have existed.

GhK.

 

[Beaudreaux]

If God does exist, why would he individually intervene? Thousands and Thousands of people each day are murdered, raped, abused or opressed every day, so why would one person getting raped be so important to him?

From Matthew 10:29-31 "29Are not two sparrows sold for a penny[d]? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from the will of your Father. 30And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31So don't be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows."

Sounds like one woman getting raped would get the attention of the God described here...