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Why is it hard for "white people" to acknowledge racism from other white people?

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
I don't like white nationalists.
I disagree with them.
Should I complain about them more?
It just seems like another "those darn white people" threads.

Yes, I don't agree with them, but it's not a crime to be a White nationalist. It's not a crime in many cases to act in a prejudiced manner. It's not a crime to be a racist, however there are anti-discrimination laws people can be sued over.

If there was some White nationalist party going about beating/killing minorities, destroying personal property, I hope the authorities deal with them severely.

However I am curious, if this kind of stuff is taking place, why I'm not hearing more about it.
 

Super Universe

Defender of God

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
I don't like white nationalists.
I disagree with them.
Should I complain about them more?
It just seems like another "those darn white people" threads.

This is not a "darn those white people" issue. I'm sure if you scroll through the archives of this website, there would be more discussions about "blacks/black violence" then discussions about whites. You don't hear or discuss discussions concerning racism in the U.S. because it makes people feel uncomfortable. I believe sexism exists against women but shall I ignore that problem? I find it funny that people are often ready to talk about Muslims, Arabs, and Islam as problematic but mention Caucasians and racism it has the effect that it has already been addressed. This discussion board is filled with it as is your response to this discussion. It's like what I said, I have to constantly answer for the actions of others in my demographic yet when we discuss racism within the white community and its toxicity in the U.S. "oh we already discussed that!" This is why racism at least in the states and the broader world will always be an issue because your response to the problem is typical.
 

DavidFirth

Well-Known Member
Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., the greatest Georgian ever, had a dream. We need to make that dream reality. All of these hate groups are pathetic. They all suck hard as far as I'm concerned.
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
I'd blame the media since I don't hear much about White Nationalist crimes against minorities. However it seems hard to find any pertinent data as well.

In Search of Data on White Supremacist Violent Crime

Generally it's a lone individual who's not associated with a White Nationalist group.

I would think the media would jump on this. I just don't recall any reports of criminal activity in the media associated with a White supremacist group.

Wait...

You're looking for present data or historical data? Why are you looking for data to acknowledge that a problem exists? I'm but only one man, but I eho the sentiments of millions of people in the U.S. about this.
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/27/us/7-injured-during-white-nationalist-protest-in-sacramento.html

I guess you didn't hear about this group. The Black Bloc is a group of San Francisco liberals who protested against the very small White National demonstration in Sacramento.

The SF liberal group greatly outnumbered the White Nationals and threw rocks at them and started the violence so the White Nationals had to end their demonstration and leave.

Have you taken political science? Last time I checked, progressive liberalism is not equated with throwing rocks or violence, quite the opposite but alas, did you read my original post? When we discuss issues of white nationalism, whites that chime in tend to deflect towards other groups instead of addressing the problem that has been presented. I do not deny the existence of militant groups black, latino, Asian, arab etc. But if you take all these militant groups it still does not equate to the existence of white nationalist groups that exist in the United States. This not to mention white supremacists that have infiltrated the judicial system as judges, cops, attorneys, etc.
 

Father

Devourer of Truth
1.racism is not bound to any race or group. it's a human trait that has existed since humanity began. most, however, deflect issues of white nationalism as it barely makes up 5% of the population. that and all the buzz words the left throws out "racist" "Nazi" they misuse it so much that when the actual thing shows up everyone is overly skeptical and does not care. many of us tried to warn them that would happen if they relied on buzz words and labels instead of dealing with opposing opinion like adults. that when the real Nazis show up it's like the boy who cried wolf

2."I notice fellow white Americans don't want to discuss it in the sense of acknowledging the grievances of people of color."
wish to talk about the North Koreans who die in concentration camps in the DPRK? how about child slavery that produces the chocolate that most eat? or the actual slavery that still goes on in Africa and Islamic countries that is not perpetrated by white people? the honor killings? im all for discussing issues but it seems all those people of color wish to talk about is their first world problems. I don't care. those little neo-nazis we have here hardly compared to some of the BS that these other people are dealing with.

oh, want to bring up death camps? they still exist. try North Korea.
oh, you still feel the after-effects of slavery which ended 150 years ago?
it still exists try North Africa and the middle east,

I recognize they are Racist... whats the problem? they have a right to be stupid if they want too so long as it does not Physically harm others. as for their group as a whole. white nationalism. no nationalism itself does not make a problem for me until it starts ramping up its actions and starts looking like Antifa. beating up random civilians and opposing rallies and getting speeches shut down because they dislike the opposing opinion. the burning of property and the instigation of violence.

actual instigation. just saying they want to do some things does not qualify. when they actually make a prevalent attempt and threat than its an issue.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
This is not a "darn those white people" issue. I'm sure if you scroll through the archives of this website, there would be more discussions about "blacks/black violence" then discussions about whites.
If you don't quantify it, then certainly I'm not going to research it.
But I wouldn't be so quick to jump to that conclusion.
You don't hear or discuss discussions concerning racism in the U.S. because it makes people feel uncomfortable. I believe sexism exists against women but shall I ignore that problem? I find it funny that people are often ready to talk about Muslims, Arabs, and Islam as problematic but mention Caucasians and racism it has the effect that it has already been addressed.
How would I go about criticizing something as general as white racism toward black folk?
First of all, I don't lump all white folk into one big basket of racists.
Secondly, when I've pointed out such things, I don't recall your joining in.
Likely, you just missed it, eg, that cops disproportionately brutalize black guys.

This feels familiar....being criticized by someone because some demographic
of mine doesn't apologize or self-criticize or mea culpaize enuf to satisfy.
It's nothing specific enuf to inspire addressing.
This discussion board is filled with it as is your response to this discussion. It's like what I said, I have to constantly answer for the actions of others in my demographic yet when we discuss racism within the white community and its toxicity in the U.S. "oh we already discussed that!" This is why racism at least in the states and the broader world will always be an issue because your response to the problem is typical.
Your thread sounds like a general complaint about white folk being indifferent.
That's likely why it inspires retorts about black folk not facing problems in their
own community. There's no good way for you to respond to that either.
The net effect is people just talking at (instead of to) each other.
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
If you don't quantify it, then certainly I'm not going to research it.
But I wouldn't be so quick to jump to that conclusion.

How would I go about criticizing something as general as white racism toward black folk?
First of all, I don't lump all white folk into one big basket of racists.
Secondly, when I've pointed out such things, I don't recall your joining in.
Likely, you just missed it, eg, that cops disproportionately brutalize black guys.

This feels familiar....being criticized by someone because some demographic
of mine doesn't apologize or self-criticize or mea culpaize enuf to satisfy.
It's nothing specific enuf to inspire addressing.

Your thread sounds like a general complaint about white folk being indifferent.
That's likely why it inspires retorts about black folk not facing problems in their
own community. There's no good way for you to respond to that either.
The net effect is people just talking at (instead of to) each other.

So shall I change my wording? It is really not a complaint at all because what is said here wont change what happens offline, but it helps. As far as me chiming in I rarely see you speak on it, quite the opposite considering I've been gone a while and just recently started discussing, you've just appear to be the court's jester. also, if you read the wording "white racism" I'm not lumping all whites, I'm referring to a group from within the demographic that maintain a racist ideology. If you're not racist then "white racism does not pertain to you." Also the fight against systemic racism does not just effect black people, it effects all people hence my previous comment stating that we can discuss ad nauseum about Islam and Mulims and Arabs and middle easterners on this board but it appears discussing white racism draws hostility.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
So shall I change my wording? It is really not a complaint at all because what is said here wont change what happens offline, but it helps. As far as me chiming in I rarely see you speak on it, quite the opposite considering I've been gone a while and just recently started discussing, you've just appear to be the court's jester. also, if you read the wording "white racism" I'm not lumping all whites, I'm referring to a group from within the demographic that maintain a racist ideology. If you're not racist then "white racism does not pertain to you." Also the fight against systemic racism does not just effect black people, it effects all people hence my previous comment stating that we can discuss ad nauseum about Islam and Mulims and Arabs and middle easterners on this board but it appears discussing white racism draws hostility.
I'll have you know that 0.013% of my posts are serious.
A difference between discussing Islam & white folk is that the former
are united by a religion, but the latter are united only by a skin color.
So discussions of each will differ significantly.
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
I'll have you know that 0.013% of my posts are serious.
A difference between discussing Islam & white folk is that the former
are united by a religion, but the latter are united only by a skin color.
So discussions of each will differ significantly.

Actually discussing religion, in this context Islam is similar as discussing religion as Islam as discussed on these boards usually encompass the immigration of people of color from foreign lands and the following stereotypes that surround that. Unlike you, I don't separate the two as I see the immense criticism of Muslims and immigration of people of color to European lands. But I guess you're oblivious to the apparent prejudice/racism that these people experience (e.g. "these people need to acclimate to OUR culture). A similar notion was ascribed to latinos here in the states.
 

Super Universe

Defender of God
Got your attention right?

This perennial question has been on my mind considering my co-workers and I tend to discuss socio-political issues. What is common outside the internet is, when white nationalists do things terrible towards people of color, and when we (we as people of color) draw attention to the issue of racism brought against us, thr comment automatically deflects "what about black on black crime?"

(Again there is no such thing as black on black crime, there is only crime, criminals of African-American origin do not attack other African-Americans based on race fyi).

Or as a reader of news articles and unfortunately a reader of yahoo articles, the comment section is filled with racism. I notice a lot of my fellow co-workers tend to ask stupid questions like "why do a lot of blacks complain about racism so much?"

I usually give off the sarcastic response stating that Jim Crow was only in the 1940's. I am 35, so the residual effects of racism are still there however I notice fellow white Americans don't want to discuss it in the sense of acknowledging the grievances of people of color.

Fast Forward to Trump's election

Charlottesville, and now recent the young African-American soldier who died and whose wife is speaking out, I am reading online and hearing some offline comments, about blaming Antifa and more recently online at least, the recently deceased soldiers wife.

I am curious as a 35 year old black man who has had to answer for what other blacks do, and who call out what other blacks do, why aren't white Americans doing the same? It seems like a pot calling the kettle black type situation.

Have I taken political science? Yes.

The last time you checked progressive liberalism is not equated with throwing rocks or violence? We can argue the many types of liberals all day long but the point is that white people DO acknowledge racism by other whites and white people are doing something to fight it.

Did I read your original post? I did. Your co-workers brought up the black on black crime issue. You argue that there is no black on black crime, that there is only crime.

African Americans do not attack people simply because they are black? Maybe that is true but they do attack white people for being white.

http://fox40.com/2016/09/12/4-arrested-in-string-of-el-dorado-hills-home-invasions/

How many more black on white crime links do you want me to produce? There are thousands.

Your co-workers ask "Why do blacks complain about racism so much?" I can't speak for others but I don't like being blamed for something I did not do. Also, my family came to the US from 1850-1907 and lived in the northern states. They were farmers and never owned any slaves. So I'm not responsible for slavery and neither is my family but I grew up being accused of something that my family did not do.

I also think that people, not just black people, love over using an excuse. It's not their fault, it's those people over there or the government or the President or this or that.

You read something about the recent African-American soldier who died? Did you also read anything about the three white soldiers who died in that same attack? Probably not, right?

You have had to answer for what other blacks do? And whites have to answer for what other white people did hundreds of years ago.

When are blacks going to apologize to the Jews for enslaving them in Egypt 2,500 years ago?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Actually discussing religion, in this context Islam is similar as discussing religion as Islam as discussed on these boards usually encompass the immigration of people of color from foreign lands and the following stereotypes that surround that. Unlike you, I don't separate the two as I see the immense criticism of Muslims and immigration of people of color to European lands. But I guess you're oblivious to the apparent prejudice/racism that these people experience (e.g. "these people need to acclimate to OUR culture). A similar notion was ascribed to latinos here in the states.
Be careful with the "oblivious" criticism.
Those who wield it are often hoist with one's own petard.
Consider....
You see what you see, & might imagine that I'm blind to it.
You treat race & religion as functionally equivalent.
You ascribe things to me while being admittedly unfamiliar with my posts.
I find both utterly wrong.
So perhaps I just have a different & more complete picture, eh.
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
1.racism is not bound to any race or group. it's a human trait that has existed since humanity began. most, however, deflect issues of white nationalism as it barely makes up 5% of the population. that and all the buzz words the left throws out "racist" "Nazi" they misuse it so much that when the actual thing shows up everyone is overly skeptical and does not care. many of us tried to warn them that would happen if they relied on buzz words and labels instead of dealing with opposing opinion like adults. that when the real Nazis show up it's like the boy who cried wolf

2."I notice fellow white Americans don't want to discuss it in the sense of acknowledging the grievances of people of color."
wish to talk about the North Koreans who die in concentration camps in the DPRK? how about child slavery that produces the chocolate that most eat? or the actual slavery that still goes on in Africa and Islamic countries that is not perpetrated by white people? the honor killings? im all for discussing issues but it seems all those people of color wish to talk about is their first world problems. I don't care. those little neo-nazis we have here hardly compared to some of the BS that these other people are dealing with.

oh, want to bring up death camps? they still exist. try North Korea.
oh, you still feel the after-effects of slavery which ended 150 years ago?
it still exists try North Africa and the middle east,

I recognize they are Racist... whats the problem? they have a right to be stupid if they want too so long as it does not Physically harm others. as for their group as a whole. white nationalism. no nationalism itself does not make a problem for me until it starts ramping up its actions and starts looking like Antifa. beating up random civilians and opposing rallies and getting speeches shut down because they dislike the opposing opinion. the burning of property and the instigation of violence.

actual instigation. just saying they want to do some things does not qualify. when they actually make a prevalent attempt and threat than its an issue.


Addressing point 1...

White nationalism does not make up 5% of the population as white nationalism is an ideology, not an actual group, the groups that form develop based on the ideologies of nationalism so wrong. In the U.S. we still have systemic racism which is developed based on white nationalist ideologies and thought process.

Addressing point 2......

The points you made in this second point was quite ignorant. For one, I discuss issues regarding the North as I discuss issues regarding child trafficking, however, for the purposes of conversation I'm not address far east problems. I live in the U.S, Where I, as a person of color am directly effected by racism here. Also, blacks or other persons of color do not always talk about racism, that is what you perceive online and in the biased media. There are other things people in the inner city discuss outside that however the grievance that persons of color face are the direct result of the increasing problems dealing with white racism in the west. Again, we aren't referring just to alt-right or white nationalists groups but the system as a whole. I'm also referring to whites who see this racism and who, remain silent on the social injustices fellow persons of color face daily. Since you don't care, I can count you out in that particular discussion of altruism towards other people.

Addressing the latter portion of your comment. Apparently you have some deficiency in reading. I'm not talking about Nazis or any particular groups. I'm referring to anyone or any body of people that want to express or design a system based on the oppression of anyone with a different skin pigmentation or anyone who is a foreigner from a different land. Again, since you don't care you don't need to be in this conversation....Dueces
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
Be careful with the "oblivious" criticism.
Those who wield it are often hoist with one's own petard.
Consider....
You see what you see, & might imagine that I'm blind to it.
You treat race & religion as functionally equivalent.
You ascribe things to me while being admittedly unfamiliar with my posts.
I find both utterly wrong.
So perhaps I just have a different & more complete picture, eh.

I'm treat race and religion in relation to ISLAM as equivalent based on the receptions of both people of European and American descent. It exists, and perhaps you are blind to it...wait, you are blind to it because it does not effect you.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Got your attention right?

This perennial question has been on my mind considering my co-workers and I tend to discuss socio-political issues. What is common outside the internet is, when white nationalists do things terrible towards people of color, and when we (we as people of color) draw attention to the issue of racism brought against us, thr comment automatically deflects "what about black on black crime?"

(Again there is no such thing as black on black crime, there is only crime, criminals of African-American origin do not attack other African-Americans based on race fyi).

Or as a reader of news articles and unfortunately a reader of yahoo articles, the comment section is filled with racism. I notice a lot of my fellow co-workers tend to ask stupid questions like "why do a lot of blacks complain about racism so much?"

I usually give off the sarcastic response stating that Jim Crow was only in the 1940's. I am 35, so the residual effects of racism are still there however I notice fellow white Americans don't want to discuss it in the sense of acknowledging the grievances of people of color.

Fast Forward to Trump's election

Charlottesville, and now recent the young African-American soldier who died and whose wife is speaking out, I am reading online and hearing some offline comments, about blaming Antifa and more recently online at least, the recently deceased soldiers wife.

I am curious as a 35 year old black man who has had to answer for what other blacks do, and who call out what other blacks do, why aren't white Americans doing the same? It seems like a pot calling the kettle black type situation.
I don't think the color argument works anymore
it just lingers as a crutch
 
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