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Why is it hard for "white people" to acknowledge racism from other white people?

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I'm treat race and religion in relation to ISLAM as equivalent based on the receptions of both people of European and American descent.
Yes, I got that...we'll have to agree to disagree.
I see religion as something which unites far more than race.
Islam poses special risks in countries where it rules, while
being white does not.
It exists, and perhaps you are blind to it...wait, you are blind to it because it does not effect you.
You don't know what affects me & what doesn't.
So it seems desperately convenient for you to presume that.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
I like Antifa, too. They are willing to take the next step in confronting that which, we have to be honest with ourselves about this, mere talk and outwitting through conversation is not going to solve.

Because damaging property, throwing punches, and tossing garbage cans is the key to positive social change. Remember these are the same people who accused gay Muslims of being "islamophobes" for protesting the ill treatment of gays in Muslim dominant countries, so let's not pretend that they're anything more than clowns.
 

Father

Devourer of Truth
Addressing point 1...

White nationalism does not make up 5% of the population as white nationalism is an ideology, not an actual group, the groups that form develop based on the ideologies of nationalism so wrong. In the U.S. we still have systemic racism which is developed based on white nationalist ideologies and thought process.

Systemic racism" im hearing "I don't know what racism is and don't want to deal with real problems"
correct its an ideology. and people have a right to whatever ideology they want. so long as they themselves do no harm based on it.
since it's not a group then you have even fewer grounds of complaint about as it has no power or organization to blame things on. and ideologies are bulletproof. good luck with that
 

Father

Devourer of Truth
Addressing point 2......

The points you made in this second point was quite ignorant. For one, I discuss issues regarding the North as I discuss issues regarding child trafficking, however, for the purposes of conversation I'm not address far east problems. I live in the U.S, Where I, as a person of color am directly effected by racism here.

I got long hair am paler than a vampire and look like a girl. welcome to the discrimination club if I waltz down to my non-local black ghetto you can be damn sure il get a few crackers or possibly mugged. don't see me complaining. some humans naturally hate other humans. some of the time it's for no rational reason. that's humanity. getting rid of racism on the psychological level is about as easy as removing all religion. don't bother. just fight for legal equality and then go away,
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
I can tell you've never taken sociology...

When there is evidence that there is a minority group not treated as persons and a system created to sustain that, it is a problem. It is not only a problem for that group, but a problem for the whole of society. Malcolm X once said and I paraphrase this imperfectly that the black man cannot be blamed by his own prejudices/racism since he has experienced over 350 years of slavery and oppression. Point is, racism has a cyclical effect where the oppressed can be the oppressor in some arenas and that the generational resentment will continue until both parties can come to the table in a dialogue. If white people are afraid to acknowledge the racism presented by their own demographic then in a similar dialogue white people shouldn't question what goes on in the minority community. If I'm a criminal and I target you because you're white, you may think of me as a racist right? Now consider my reasons:

1) My father was killed by KKK

2) I'm poor

3) I would consider whites as prey considering the stereotype that whites are passive

4) Considering the racial profiling from cops and social injustices I may naturally resent whites as a whole.

So I disagree, this is a problem all around.

I don't think you read my post. I am struggling to see how this is a response to what I said.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
You don't hear or discuss discussions concerning racism in the U.S. because it makes people feel uncomfortable. I believe sexism exists against women but shall I ignore that problem? I find it funny that people are often ready to talk about Muslims, Arabs, and Islam as problematic but mention Caucasians and racism it has the effect that it has already been addressed

I really think this is a strawman. As a white man I don't feel uncomfortable discussing racism here, there or anywhere.

As I said earlier, I acknowledge that it exists. What I'm challenging you on is my inference that you are suggesting a solution via identity politics, and I simply disagree with that approach. Should we fight racism? Of course! Should we use identity politics? I don't think so.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
I grew up in the housing projects of a mid size city...pop150,000
most of my 'difficulties' came from 'fellow white guys'
sure .....some color got in there too

nowadays ...far away....
the town I live in has earned a dubious distinction
on a scale of 100.....100 as safest....
my little town gets a......1

what happened over the last twenty years.....?
the east end became ....'dark'
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
Or as a reader of news articles and unfortunately a reader of yahoo articles, the comment section is filled with racism. I notice a lot of my fellow co-workers tend to ask stupid questions like "why do a lot of blacks complain about racism so much?"
I have noticed that there are people out there who will anonymously post very harsh words not just against blacks. I think they are trolls usually. On the other hand there are people with very racist attitudes, too; but they are 'Dying out' and also being converted to non-racists.
Epic Beard Man said:
Why is it hard for "white people" to acknowledge racism from other white people?
Racism is around, but it does not abound as much as it may seem from anonymous trolls. I do not think that it is hard to recognize blatant racism, and I do not think being white affects this ability. I think people are busy and don't look at things unless they are right in front of us.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I have noticed that there are people out there who will anonymously post very harsh words not just against blacks. I think they are trolls usually. On the other hand there are people with very racist attitudes, too; but they are 'Dying out' and also being converted to non-racists.
Aye, one should not judge reality by trollish comments found on the internet.
Since anything can be found there, one could end up believing anything.
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
Have I taken political science? Yes.

The last time you checked progressive liberalism is not equated with throwing rocks or violence? We can argue the many types of liberals all day long but the point is that white people DO acknowledge racism by other whites and white people are doing something to fight it.

Did I read your original post? I did. Your co-workers brought up the black on black crime issue. You argue that there is no black on black crime, that there is only crime.

African Americans do not attack people simply because they are black? Maybe that is true but they do attack white people for being white.

http://fox40.com/2016/09/12/4-arrested-in-string-of-el-dorado-hills-home-invasions/

How many more black on white crime links do you want me to produce? There are thousands.

Your co-workers ask "Why do blacks complain about racism so much?" I can't speak for others but I don't like being blamed for something I did not do. Also, my family came to the US from 1850-1907 and lived in the northern states. They were farmers and never owned any slaves. So I'm not responsible for slavery and neither is my family but I grew up being accused of something that my family did not do.

I also think that people, not just black people, love over using an excuse. It's not their fault, it's those people over there or the government or the President or this or that.

You read something about the recent African-American soldier who died? Did you also read anything about the three white soldiers who died in that same attack? Probably not, right?

You have had to answer for what other blacks do? And whites have to answer for what other white people did hundreds of years ago.

When are blacks going to apologize to the Jews for enslaving them in Egypt 2,500 years ago?

Ok so since you've taken political science and understand political leans then I'll forgive you in your mistaken post regarding "militant liberals throwing rocks." You understand that the idea of progressivism is about social reform. The idea that militant rock throwing is against the ideals of progressivism because it does not advocate the right to free speech as well as the right to assembly. However, it becomes an issue if speech turns violent so any group proclaiming liberalism (which I think a lot of young militant groups misinterpret) using violent tactics are merely extremists with misguided ideals. Conservatives have a habit of ascribing violent tactics especially in light of recent events as a "liberal." When it comes to dangerous ideas even though an individual has a skewed belief (in my opinion) I do not care so long as you do not incite violence or touch me and you can say whatever you want.

You said: "Your co-workers brought up the black on black crime issue. You argue that there is no black on black crime, that there is only crime."

Ok, I see you read that but you missed the part where I also said: " my co-workers and I tend to discuss socio-political issues." When discussing socio-political issues then spans on a variety of other topics besides racism, but apparently your mind seemed to have focused mainly on "black on black crime." That (black-on-black crime) is merely one topic out of many) issue is not the main focus however when discussing race relations, the typical response I've noticed by some whites is that many tend to deflect from the criticisms of their community as we see in the following statement made by you:

"African Americans do not attack people simply because they are black? Maybe that is true but they do attack white people for being white."

Just to finally solidify my point according to the national review:

"There’s no such thing as “black-on-black” crime. Yes, from 1976 to 2005, 94 percent of black victims were killed by black offenders, but that racial exclusivity was also true for white victims of violent crime—86 percent were killed by white offenders. . . ."

Read more at: 'There's No Such Thing as Black-on-Black Crime'

As for what you posted subsequent to the black-on-black crime stuff regarding "black on white" crime, we must ask when it comes to so-called black on white crime is the criminal activity done on the basis of race or was it because the victims were white and that the crime was merely based on criminal activity? So-called black on white crime is called "hate crime" so you would have to produce evidence that there is a growing epidemic of hate crime and discern it from regular criminal activity. But let us see if there is more black on white:

"According to the 2015 FBI hate crime statistics, the latest available, there were 613 anti-white-related crimes out of 5,850 total cases. That's around 10.5 percent of all reported hate crimes, and within the yearly average, federal numbers show.

By comparison, the FBI reports there were 1,745 anti-black hate crimes or about 30 percent of all reported incidents. Jews were the most targeted religious group that year and were victims of 11 percent of all hate crimes. It's not clear how many anti-Jewish hate crime victims also may have been attacked because of their race........

If you read further in the article:

"The FBI does classify attacks based on disability as a hate crime. Federal numbers show 88 incidents related to attacks on disability in 2015.

In addition to underreporting, Levin said strong federal data of the race and ethnicity of assailants is incomplete because of the lack of consistent reporting.

The 2015 FBI data showed that of the 734 total reported offenses committed against whites — a single incident could have multiple offenses like assault or theft — 46 percent of those were committed by blacks.

In contrast, of the 2,125 reported offenses committed against blacks, 58 percent of those who committed by whites."

See:Crimes against whites equals small percentage of hate crimes, FBI statistics show

Your fox news link does not prove that the crime was race based. You need to produce actual data to demonstrate hate crimes against whites:

Race/Ethnicity/Ancestry: 3,310 4,029 4,216 3,196
Anti-White 613 734 789 681
Anti-Black or African American 1,745 2,125 2,201 1,605

See:Table 1


Clearly you are wrong in the stats considering anti-white crime as the above shows there is more anti-black crime when compared to anti-white crime. Again, the crime has to be proven as racially motivated not a simple crime where the victim is just a random person. Alas, this is not the thread concerning that, this is about what I stated in the beginning. You're continual intent to deflect will be ignored by me. If you want to discuss that, make a thread about it.

"When are blacks going to apologize to the Jews for enslaving them in Egypt 2,500 years ago?"

This isn't a discussion about apologies this is a discussion about people of Caucasian descent checking people who are blatantly racist and a fight against white supremacy.
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
Systemic racism" im hearing "I don't know what racism is and don't want to deal with real problems"
correct its an ideology. and people have a right to whatever ideology they want. so long as they themselves do no harm based on it.
since it's not a group then you have even fewer grounds of complaint about as it has no power or organization to blame things on. and ideologies are bulletproof. good luck with that

Apparently you are ignorant to this:Jim Crow Laws | American Experience | PBS

Which in effect lead to this situation:The death of Emmett Till - Aug 28, 1955 - HISTORY.com

Then this situation:https://www.colorlines.com/articles/its-been-96-years-white-mobs-destroyed-tulsas-black-wall-street

Then it evolved this era: http://www.history.com/topics/black-history/civil-rights-movement

But although progression has been made the residue of white nationalism in systemic racism lingers that did this:Heather Heyer, Charlottesville Victim, Is Recalled as ‘a Strong Woman’

Not to mention this:Charleston church shooter Dylan Roof now calls death row home

So you're wrong again, white nationalism has been pretty dangerous. Failed again.
 

Father

Devourer of Truth
Apparently you are ignorant to this:Jim Crow Laws | American Experience | PBS

Which in effect lead to this situation:The death of Emmett Till - Aug 28, 1955 - HISTORY.com

Then this situation:https://www.colorlines.com/articles/its-been-96-years-white-mobs-destroyed-tulsas-black-wall-street

Then it evolved this era: http://www.history.com/topics/black-history/civil-rights-movement

But although progression has been made the residue of white nationalism in systemic racism lingers that did this:Heather Heyer, Charlottesville Victim, Is Recalled as ‘a Strong Woman’

Not to mention this:Charleston church shooter Dylan Roof now calls death row home

So you're wrong again, white nationalism has been pretty dangerous. Failed again.

jim crow is dead. his laws no longer apply. get over it
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
I got long hair am paler than a vampire and look like a girl. welcome to the discrimination club if I waltz down to my non-local black ghetto you can be damn sure il get a few crackers or possibly mugged. don't see me complaining. some humans naturally hate other humans. some of the time it's for no rational reason. that's humanity. getting rid of racism on the psychological level is about as easy as removing all religion. don't bother. just fight for legal equality and then go away,

Not my problem you look like a female, but you're still white and still benefit from things I can't. But your anecdote does not represent the 44 million African-Americans that experience racism daily even without strolling "down the block."
 

Father

Devourer of Truth
Not my problem you look like a female, but you're still white and still benefit from things I can't. But your anecdote does not represent the 44 million African-Americans that experience racism daily even without strolling "down the block."
and you benefit from things I cant. I have fewer odds of getting accepted by food stamps or Medicare even if I was poorer. along with scholarships and many handouts and lowering of the bar due to racial programs.
"does not represent 44 million" that's an antidote you cant speak for all 44 million of them. I would like to see where you pulled that number from. as i am pretty sure that's a strawman
 

Father

Devourer of Truth
Not my problem you look like a female, but you're still white and still benefit from things I can't. But your anecdote does not represent the 44 million African-Americans that experience racism daily even without strolling "down the block."
also evidence of this "systemic racism" not pulling up ancient history that no longer applies. I want actual evidence from this decade.
 

Father

Devourer of Truth
Not my problem you look like a female, but you're still white and still benefit from things I can't. But your anecdote does not represent the 44 million African-Americans that experience racism daily even without strolling "down the block."
because last I checked we had a black president. we have black people in every aspect of culture media and society. much of it forced out of equal representation. oppressed people have none of that. and true racism does not allow that.
the racism you speak of is not even organized. or in Law. you can bring up jim crow laws but turns out cupcake they don't apply anymore. there is a library of laws and stipulations on your behalf.
all you have are claims of racism. which I could bet at least 70% of them have no ground and the remaining 20% have rational reasoning. the remaining 10% true but due to individual cases and not from any organized affair.


furthermore for the record Equality only applies to the Law. forced equality like equal outcome is communistic and impossible. humans thrive on hierarchy and class. 90% of those issues you think are racial are due to class. not race.
if you cited cases of cops killing whites die just as much if not more by police. the reason for the high percentage of black deaths from it is they tend to be in cities which have high density so high crime. you have a cop dealing with crime after crime after crime they are bound to slip up. or the occasional racist cop which is possible.
as for opportunities do to "white privilege" I can list you all the possible scholarships and benefits given only to blacks thanks to racial programs.which is clearly in bold only applicable to one group while the other is a vague concept. I call us even.
 
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