Why I think "own" should not be there; Proverbs 3:5

[savagewind]

I was a Jehovah's Witness. Jehovah's Witnesses are taught to lean on the understanding of the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses. If a member refuses, he is said to be causing division.
If a JWs refuses to trust in the belief that they are God's chosen people and that the governing body is the faithful and discreet slave he is not "one mind" with them. It means he or she is refusing to obey GOD. I knew for a long time that some of the things they were teaching were not trustworthy, but that was me leaning on my OWN understanding. All the Bibles say not to do that! But, the Bible doesn't say that. If Proverbs 3:5 said, "on your understanding do not lean" sooner would I have seen that it is what they do and what they teach.

 

[RabbiO]

I think that Proverbs 3:5 was written thus: Trust in יְ֭הוָה with all your heart and on understanding do not lean.

They added "own" there and I believe it is wrong to read it that way.......

Forget about "own" for a moment. You've still got "your".

 

[savagewind]

Forget about "own" for a moment.

I believe it says, "your understanding", which can also mean our understanding if the case was that everyone had to believe the same thing, and it is the case with the Jehovah's Witnesses.

 

[Tumah]

You are right! I don't think your should be taken off. Own should be taken off because it was added.

Instead of becoming clearer as the conversation progresses you are becoming less understandable. What difference do you see between "your understanding" and "your own understanding"?

Does God speak?

Technically no. But He can make a Voice be heard.

Is God with us in time?

I don't know.

God speaks, or how else can anyone call scripture, "God's word"?

That sounds like it would be a question on people, not on G-d.

God does not move with us in time. Right?

I don't know.

So currently, all things are happening. Is this not so?

I think you mean to say "all things are happening at the same moment".
And I don't know.

 

[savagewind]

Mine, your, and our are all pronouns. I trust that a Hebrew word combines nouns and pronouns and I think it is wonderful. I do not trust that an adjective can also exist in it.

I have to go shovel snow.

 

[savagewind]

I think I said what the difference is between your understanding and your own understanding.

 

[savagewind]

Mine, your, and our are all pronouns. I trust that a Hebrew word combines nouns and pronouns and I think it is wonderful. I do not trust that an adjective can also exist in it.

 

[savagewind]

One more time. The difference between your and your own.

Your can mean the self and other people. Your own can only mean the self.

Your own is just one person. Your is everybody else AND yourself.

 

[savagewind]

I think that Jewish people might care that there exists approximately 2.5 billion Bibles which teach to mislead.

Why not tell me why you do not care?

 

[savagewind]

God says, "they do not know why your means everybody".

 

[savagewind]

The person reading it does not think, "everybody" when he reads, "own".

 

[james bond]

@wizanda. When I look for the meaning, I do not put my trust in what someone (who knows who?) says it means. I go back to the information that THEY (we don't know who) used to come to their* conclusions. I click on Strong's text analysis and then I look at the transliteration to see where else the same word was used (originally or as far back as they* know).

*We do not know who they are.

We don't? It was explained to me the kings. Mostly King Solomon. You don't think he was wise?

Book of Proverbs - Bible Survey

 

[savagewind]

We don't? It was explained to me the kings. Mostly King Solomon. You don't think he was wise?

Book of Proverbs - Bible Survey

Oh, big SIGH. God? OMG. Should I keep talking?

LOL

If I understand the question correctly.....just shoot me now!

I am not arguing what was written. OK?

I am arguing the added adjective to what was written.

I suppose it is right by you that people change what Solomon wrote. It isn't right by me.

 

[Tumah]

One more time. The difference between your and your own.

Your can mean the self and other people. Your own can only mean the self.

Your own is just one person. Your is everybody else AND yourself.

This is the word:
בינתך
בינ - understanding
ת - of/belonging to
ך - you (second person, singular, masculine)

Its in singular. It just means "you" as in "you", not as in "everybody". Same as the other part of the "with all your heart".
לבך
לב - heart (with vowel changes to reflect the 'belonging to')
ך - you (second person, singular, masculine)

I think that Jewish people might care that there exists approximately 2.5 billion Bibles which teach to mislead.

Why not tell me why you do not care?

Those Christian Bibles teach a lot worse things than this.

 

[savagewind]

I understand it does not mean everybody. But people who think can see the difference between your and own.

For instance, someone reading it for the first, second, third....time would think, "sure! God is true and I don't know much, so I shouldn't trust that what I think I know is true".

Then someone comes who exhibits more wisdom and learning and I say,
"maybe what he is saying is the truth and I should adopt it, it isn't my own understanding, so I won't be ignoring what is written there at Proverbs 3:5 because it is HIS understanding and not my own".

Because.....he says he hears from God. Who am I to refuse what he says?

On the other hand, if own was eliminated, I could say, "he appears to be leaning on his understanding. The Bible warns us about doing that, so I shouldn't trust that man because he is neglecting the truth of Proverbs 3:5".

 

[savagewind]

I have more.

Proverbs 3:5 the church's way actually doesn't work like they say, as they try hard to fit that square peg into that round hole.

The reason why is there is the real possibility that a person can know that he or she is leaning on understanding, but there is no way to know if the person who is teaching you his way is leaning on his understanding. How can a person know if what he says about coming in God's name is true or not? Yes, it is possible, but not without time and not without leaning.

 

[savagewind]

This is what I hear. Stuffing a lie into the truth is a violent act. Psalms 11:5

 

[savagewind]

@james bond Please know that I am not doubting what was written. I doubt what people (the whole world, actually) say was written.

 

[rosends]

Which word in the Hebrew is the adjective, "own"?

בְּטַח אֶל יְהוָה בְּכָל לִבֶּךָ וְאֶל בִּינָתְךָ אַל תִּשָּׁעֵן:

Trust towards God with all the heart that is yours (singular), and towards all the wisdom that is yours (singular) don't trust (second person singular, binyan nif'al).

So how would you want to change the words to mean something different? Would you suggest that prefixes or suffixes were inserted? What about the entire structure? It isn't exactly an antimetabole, but the wording "trust to X (with Y), and to not-X don't trust" is balanced in syntax and word construction.

The second person singular structure of the noun indicates possession or ownership. You might not like the insertion of the word "own" in there but I don't see any difference in meaning if it, on its "own" is deleted.

 

[savagewind]

בְּטַח אֶל יְהוָה בְּכָל לִבֶּךָ וְאֶל בִּינָתְךָ אַל תִּשָּׁעֵן:

Trust towards God with all the heart that is yours (singular), and towards all the wisdom that is yours (singular) don't trust (second person singular, binyan nif'al).

So how would you want to change the words to mean something different? .

Me? LOL. I love you guys!

I don't believe it was written with the adjective 'own', but that is what it says now.