Why I think "own" should not be there; Proverbs 3:5

[Kemosloby]

Do people know what the word OWN means?

If someone tells me that I should not lean on my own understanding I might say, "whose understanding can I lean on, yours?"

It is a fact that people lean on the understanding of their favorite worldly or religious philosophy.

Right? So? It is alright if I pick one and lean on it?

In the context of the scriptures, obviously the Lord is talking about leaning on his word, not some others. See you can't dwell on the letter of the law, you have to allow the correct meaning to guide you.

 

[savagewind]

Go ahead.....ask him! Oh? Is he dead?

 

[savagewind]

In the context of the scriptures, obviously the Lord is talking about leaning on his word, not some others. See you can't dwell on the letter of the law, you have to allow the correct meaning to guide you.

Aha! This is why it is important imo to understand that the writer meant DO NOT LEAN.

Lean means to settle. If you, like the scriptures say to do, go searching for the truth, but you come to a firm decision that what you have is the truth, you won't find it because you are resting (leaning) on what YOU believe it all means.

 

[savagewind]

To lean means to stop the search.

 

[Rival]

To lean means to stop the search.

Nah, that's just your understanding.

 

[Kemosloby]

Aha! This is why it is important imo to understand that the writer meant DO NOT LEAN.

Lean means to settle. If you, like the scriptures say to do, go searching for the truth, but you come to a firm decision that what you have is the truth, you won't find it because you are resting (leaning) on what YOU believe it all means.

Perhaps it means, do not hear only what you want to hear.

 

[savagewind]

Perhaps it means, do not hear only what you want to hear.

I think you are right!

I have asked strict believers if they trust that if Jesus told them something different would they believe him? I think they wouldn't. I think they can't.

 

[Tumah]

I am not leaning. It doesn't say, Trust in G-d with all your heart and thinking do not do".

No thinking! No questions!

I am not leaning.

No it doesn't say "thinking do not do" it says, "don't rely on your understanding".

My God says that they are all alive to God. That means I may ask the writer what he wrote, and I did!

You've spoken to Solomon?

 

[allfoak]

If Proverbs 3:5 says not to lean on my own understanding, then whose? An Orthodox Rabbi?

We have been through this before big sister.
What we are being told to lean on is the power and wisdom within, the Logos.
The mind of God.

Do you see what happens when we do not understand who we are?
The scriptures do not make sense unless we know that the Word is in us.

 

[savagewind]

No it doesn't say "thinking do not do" it says, "don't rely on your understanding".

But, that is what I am saying it means! The Bible says something different.
JPS Tanakh 1917
Trust in the LORD with all thy heart, And lean not upon thine own understanding.

You've spoken to Solomon?

I can hear God speaking to him.

 

[savagewind]

We have been through this before big sister.
What we are being told to lean on is the power and wisdom within, the Logos.
The mind of God.

Do you see what happens when we do not understand who we are?
The scriptures do not make sense unless we know that the Word is in us.

It makes sense to me!

I am not asking for correction. I am asking them to please think.

 

[allfoak]

It makes sense to me!

I am not asking for correction. I am asking them to please think.

If it made sense to you, you wouldn't need to remove a word.
Silly girl.

 

[Tumah]

But, that is what I am saying it means!

No you aren't. You want it to say, "and on understanding do not lean" and what it says is "and on your understanding, do not lean".

The Bible says something different.
JPS Tanakh 1917
Trust in the LORD with all thy heart, And lean not upon thine own understanding.

The JPS 1917 is just the KJV with the bad parts edited out.

I can hear God speaking to him.

There's medication for that.

 

[Rival]

The JPS 1917 is just the KJV with the bad parts edited out.

You beat me to it.

But surely this is just your own understanding

 

[rosends]

I think that Proverbs 3:5 was written thus: Trust in יְ֭הוָה with all your heart and on understanding do not lean.

They added "own" there and I believe it is wrong to read it that way.

It is a FACT that people put their trust (or lean) on the knowledge of wise men and woman. I do not think that it is wrong to learn by knowledgeable and wise persons. I believe it is alright to trust what makes sense, what promotes love and what builds confidence.

I worry that the way Proverbs 3:5 is read discourages trusting in your own conscience and encourages latching on to people who come in the name of The Lord.

Simply. 1. Trust God and 2. do not rely on worldly wisdom.

On the one hand, it is God alone that the writer trusts in and on the other hand, he warns you not to settle on what your heart tells you. What does it tell you? Some people's heart says to trust in what another person says and so in effect he or she becomes your master and you become his or her accomplice.

To add "own" there seems to encourage faith in not yourself (which isn't a bad thing to put faith in yourself) but in those of station (a very bad thing, imo).

Which word or words exactly was changed or added?

בְּטַח אֶל יְהוָה בְּכָל לִבֶּךָ וְאֶל בִּינָתְךָ אַל תִּשָּׁעֵן:

Based on the Hebrew, you are suggesting that the entire verse was rewritten -- this isn't a matter of a letter or even a word.

 

[David T]

I think that Proverbs 3:5 was written thus: Trust in יְ֭הוָה with all your heart and on understanding do not lean.

They added "own" there and I believe it is wrong to read it that way.

It is a FACT that people put their trust (or lean) on the knowledge of wise men and woman. I do not think that it is wrong to learn by knowledgeable and wise persons. I believe it is alright to trust what makes sense, what promotes love and what builds confidence.

I worry that the way Proverbs 3:5 is read discourages trusting in your own conscience and encourages latching on to people who come in the name of The Lord.

Simply. 1. Trust God and 2. do not rely on worldly wisdom.

On the one hand, it is God alone that the writer trusts in and on the other hand, he warns you not to settle on what your heart tells you. What does it tell you? Some people's heart says to trust in what another person says and so in effect he or she becomes your master and you become his or her accomplice.

To add "own" there seems to encourage faith in not yourself (which isn't a bad thing to put faith in yourself) but in those of station (a very bad thing, imo).

Interesting. When I was young I leaned on elders who presented themselves as wise. As an elder today I realize they were children with gray hair. Well meaning, but confused. The only wise men who I trust are the ones who teach not to trust any self proclaimed wise man, trust me on this, I am a self proclaimed wise man.

 

[savagewind]

No you aren't. You want it to say, "and on understanding do not lean" and what it says is "and on your understanding, do not lean".

You are right! I don't think your should be taken off. Own should be taken off because it was added.

The JPS 1917 is just the KJV with the bad parts edited out.

Thank you.

There's medication for that.

Does God speak? Is God with us in time?

God speaks, or how else can anyone call scripture, "God's word"?

God does not move with us in time. Right? So currently, all things are happening. Is this not so?

 

[savagewind]

The reason why people can't hear God speaking is because they are all leaning or they don't care to hear.

 

[savagewind]

I know that for people who do not care about fine-tuning their thoughts, your understanding and your own understanding mean the same thing. But, they don't! They are not the same!

 

[savagewind]

Which word or words exactly was changed or added?

בְּטַח אֶל יְהוָה בְּכָל לִבֶּךָ וְאֶל בִּינָתְךָ אַל תִּשָּׁעֵן:

Based on the Hebrew, you are suggesting that the entire verse was rewritten -- this isn't a matter of a letter or even a word.

Which word in the Hebrew is the adjective, "own"?

New International Version
Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding;

New Living Translation
Trust in the LORD with all your heart; do not depend on your own understanding.

English Standard Version
Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding.

New American Standard Bible
Trust in the LORD with all your heart And do not lean on your own understanding.

King James Bible
Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and do not rely on your own understanding;

International Standard Version
Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and do not depend on your own understanding.

NET Bible
Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and do not rely on your own understanding.

New Heart English Bible
Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Hope in Lord Jehovah from your whole heart and do not trust upon the wisdom of your soul.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Trust the LORD with all your heart, and do not rely on your own understanding.

JPS Tanakh 1917
Trust in the LORD with all thy heart, And lean not upon thine own understanding.

New American Standard 1977
Trust in the LORD with all your heart,
And do not lean on your own understanding.

Jubilee Bible 2000
Trust in the LORD with all thine heart and lean not unto thine own understanding.

King James 2000 Bible
Trust in the LORD with all your heart; and lean not unto your own understanding.

American King James Version
Trust in the LORD with all your heart; and lean not to your own understanding.

American Standard Version
Trust in Jehovah with all thy heart, And lean not upon thine own understanding:

Douay-Rheims Bible
Have confidence in the Lord with all thy heart, and lean not upon thy own prudence.

Darby Bible Translation
Confide in Jehovah with all thy heart, and lean not unto thine own intelligence;

English Revised Version
Trust in the LORD with all thine heart, and lean not upon thine own understanding:

Webster's Bible Translation
Trust in the LORD with all thy heart; and lean not to thy own understanding.

World English Bible
Trust in Yahweh with all your heart, and don't lean on your own understanding.

Young's Literal Translation
Trust unto Jehovah with all thy heart, And unto thine own understanding lean not.