Why I think "own" should not be there; Proverbs 3:5

[savagewind]

One more time!

You might think that it is obvious that wisdom says anyone should not lean on their understanding, but that is actually not what it says when they (I don't know who) inserted the word, "own" there.

 

[savagewind]

I reserve the right to do it again!

 

[savagewind]

Each person should not rest on his or her own understanding per Proverbs 3:5, but how is anyone to know that the other person is not resting on his own understanding?

Someone comes trusting in his own understanding, but you do not know if he is scamming or for real.
It isn't too hard to tell if someone acts as though he is trusting in what he thinks. If he comes teaching the Bible, but it is obvious that he is leaning on what he understands of the Bible, then you know he isn't for real. He is not obeying Proverbs 3:5.

Am I leaning? I am not leaning. I will be happy to meet someone who can change my mind.

 

[rosends]

Me? LOL. I love you guys!

I don't believe it was written with the adjective 'own', but that is what it says now.

Of course it wasn't! It wasn't written in English! But the Hebrew that was written uses a particular structure which indicates singular, second person ownership, so translators put the word in there because that word indicates the same thing.

The text also wasn't written with the word "heart" in there because it is in Hebrew.

 

[savagewind]

Of course it wasn't! It wasn't written in English! But the Hebrew that was written uses a particular structure which indicates singular, second person ownership, so translators put the word in there because that word indicates the same thing.

The text also wasn't written with the word "heart" in there because it is in Hebrew.

So, do you think it is alright to lean on another person's understanding?
As people do who trust in God's prophets?

 

[rosends]

So, do you think it is alright to lean on another person's understanding?
As people do who trust in God's prophets?

I think that while you would not rely on my understanding (or even yours), you don't understand the position of and use of Proverbs. The text is saying that in your perception of the world, don't rely on expensive but unproven teachers or on your own, completely independent sense, but instead, rely on God's word and through the study of it you will develop understanding of the world. As verse 7 says, "Do not be wise in your own sight;" but rely on actual study of God's laws and on those who have developed wisdom through learning God's words. If you start with Proverbs chapter 1, you will see that Solomon's advice is about finding the right kind of teacher and becoming involved with the source material.

 

[savagewind]

I think that I see some people who think it is righteous to lean on the understanding of trusted teachers.

 

[rosends]

Of course it is. Look at Proverbs 1:8. Try 5:11-14, 15:23, 17:24, 18:4 and on and on. The argument is against trusting the self which is not anchored to God's law, or trusting in teacher's whose "knowledge" is self-generated. Wisdom (presented either by one's own brain or wise men) comes from studying God's word.

 

[savagewind]

Listen, my son, to your father's instruction and do not forsake your mother's teaching.

At the end of your life you will groan, when your flesh and body are spent. You will say, "How I hated discipline! How my heart spurned correction! I would not obey my teachers or turn my ear to my instructors. And I was soon in serious trouble in the assembly of God's people.

A person finds joy in giving an apt reply-- and how good is a timely word!

A discerning person keeps wisdom in view, but a fool's eyes wander to the ends of the earth.

The words of the mouth are deep waters, but the fountain of wisdom is a rushing stream.

I don't see trust, lean or rest there.

I thought the discussion was about leaning. What does leaning mean, in your opinion?

@rosends what does this word mean? שָׁ֭מַעְתִּי

 

[Ingledsva]

I think that Proverbs 3:5 was written thus: Trust in יְ֭הוָה with all your heart and on understanding do not lean.

They added "own" there and I believe it is wrong to read it that way.

It is a FACT that people put their trust (or lean) on the knowledge of wise men and woman. I do not think that it is wrong to learn by knowledgeable and wise persons. I believe it is alright to trust what makes sense, what promotes love and what builds confidence.

I worry that the way Proverbs 3:5 is read discourages trusting in your own conscience and encourages latching on to people who come in the name of The Lord.

Simply. 1. Trust God and 2. do not rely on worldly wisdom.

On the one hand, it is God alone that the writer trusts in and on the other hand, he warns you not to settle on what your heart tells you. What does it tell you? Some people's heart says to trust in what another person says and so in effect he or she becomes your master and you become his or her accomplice.

To add "own" there seems to encourage faith in not yourself (which isn't a bad thing to put faith in yourself) but in those of station (a very bad thing, imo).

As an English sentence, I came up with -

Pro 3:5 For security/assurance, to YHVH thy whole understanding/mind put, and for wisdom/knowledge, don't on thyself rely .

*

 

[rosends]

I see trust absolutely -- why would you listen to your mother's teaching if you did not trust her? Or your teachers? Without trust, you cannot take the teachings anyone gives you and accept them.

Shamati means, in the most simplistic sense, "I listened." The specific distinction between "listen", "hear", "hearken" and similar English words is difficult to draw. The Hebrew calls forth many different subtleties.

 

[savagewind]

You all understand that I can't possibly know anything that is different than your trusted version of things. Correct?

 

[savagewind]

As an English sentence, I came up with -

Pro 3:5 For security/assurance, to YHVH thy whole understanding/mind put, and for wisdom/knowledge, don't on thyself rely .

*

OK. The modern version of that would be; For security/assurance, to YHVH thy whole understanding/mind put, and for wisdom/knowledge, don't on thyself thine own self rely .

 

[savagewind]

I see trust absolutely -- why would you listen to your mother's teaching if you did not trust her? Or your teachers? Without trust, you cannot take the teachings anyone gives you and accept them.

You have just proved my point. You trust someone so you take their advice and run with it. Trust does not make someone right. What if their advice is wrong?

Shamati means, in the most simplistic sense, "I listened." The specific distinction between "listen", "hear", "hearken" and similar English words is difficult to draw. The Hebrew calls forth many different subtleties.

I believe in listening. I have seen that the mind will reject a thing heard if it does not harmonize with what the person trusts is true. Is it perhaps how mankind is in God's image?

 

[savagewind]

To be teaching that it isn't right to trust in one's own self is to encourage the listener to cling to the first thing from without that looks good to him or her.

 

[savagewind]

The word own amplifies the meaning that the reader can't be right. What then?

 

[savagewind]

Own is a modifying word.

GRAMMAR Modify
(especially of an adjective) restrict or add to the sense of (a noun).

 

[rosends]

You have just proved my point. You trust someone so you take their advice and run with it. Trust does not make someone right. What if their advice is wrong?

But the text is clear that one is to rely on (that is, to trust the words of) the teacher who is steeped in studying God's wisdom and not relying on his own. Otherwise, why should we ever learn from a wise man, and yet the text tells us to do so.

 

[rosends]

The word own amplifies the meaning that the reader can't be right. What then?

Because the reader CAN'T be right unless he is informed by the study of God's wisdom. The "own" is essential because the independent surmising of the individual, not based in listening to the wisdom of God, is not wisdom. But the person CAN rely on himself if he has acquired wisdom by drinking from the fountain of God's wisdom as presented in God's texts.

 

[savagewind]

But the text is clear that one is to rely on (that is, to trust the words of) the teacher who is steeped in studying God's wisdom and not relying on his own. Otherwise, why should we ever learn from a wise man, and yet the text tells us to do so.

I don't think so! Learning does not happen at rest. Learning is work. To lean is to settle. To settle is to become immobile. I understand that other scriptures say to listen, but Proverbs 3:5 says to trust in GOD. You, on the other hand, say it means to trust in the teacher. The teacher is not God in your examples. What does whole mean?

This word? בְּכָל־