I understand that own is not in the original. Are you saying that it is?
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Why I think "own" should not be there; Proverbs 3:5
- Thread starter savagewind
- Start date
rosends
Well-Known Member
Who said anything about resting? To trust is not to rest. Trusting is very hard work as it is a display of faith with is constantly subject to question and second guessing. To learn from a teacher means to trust in his knowledge -- a great leap of faith. This is not easy, nor is it rest.
God instructed Moses. Moses instructed the people. The people later had to teach their children (Deut 11:20). The children DIDN'T trust that their parents knew of what they spoke?
Part of trusting in God bchol libecha, with all your heart, is in making that leap of faith completely and accepting that God's words (even the ones that say to listen to teachers) are authoritative. Otherwise, why would Proverbs tell us to to learn from the instructions of our mothers? Where is God in that verse? The answer is, God is the author of that verse, telling us to listen to our mothers.
rosends
Well-Known Member
And you also understand that "heart" is not in the original, right?
This word. תִּשָּׁעֵֽן׃
Samson is said to תִּשָּׁעֵֽן׃ on the pillars. Not trust them.
Yes, but heart means inner man, mind, will. Correct? The meaning is not different. When own was added, the meaning changed.
rosends
Well-Known Member
The word tisha'en -- from the root sh-ayin-n which appears 22 times in various forms, has three primary meanings:
leaning, as in Sam 2, 1:6 and Judges 15:26 (physical leaning) and Job 8:15 (metaphorical)
was next to, as in Num 21:15
trust in (the majority of uses -- 14 of 22) such as Isaiah 10:20
rosends
Well-Known Member
Whoah -- heart means heart, unless you are accepting extending meanings that are understood by a translator and inserted in the English. When "mind" is added, it changes the meaning. Why is "mind" ok to insert but not "own"?
Own is mine, not your. I think that heart is always metaphorical and means what a person will do.
I think that lean means to let a belief cause behavior. The governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses came with the belief that they are being used by God to be correcting the attitudes of the faithful of God.
They really believe that they are personally chosen to lead the people safely out of the great tribulation.
If that is true, then it can be said that they are leaning on Christ's understanding. They wouldn't be disrespecting Proverbs 3:5 because the understanding is not their own. It seems to them to be coming from God.
It wasn't hard for me to understand that they were teaching some scriptures wrong. It had not occurred to me that they were teaching Proverbs 3:5 wrong while I was with them. I was with them with my time, my effort and my money for almost twenty years because I would not lean on my own understanding. I also know it is not humanly possible to see inside their hearts to know they are leaning on their own understanding. I realize that now, but it takes awhile.
If Proverbs was copied without the added meaning, as soon as I realized that Jesus is not the one pictured at Revelation 6;2 I might have left them then and saved myself a lot of grief and a little money.
The reason why is because I would have known that by their teaching something that I knew was wrong they were disregarding the important rule at Proverbs 3:5. They are telling us to obey them, but they do not obey what is written by God as they believe all scripture is of God.
Some people can't see the difference between Proverbs the way it is and Proverbs the way I think it was. I can.
rosends
Well-Known Member
Some people can't see that the difference between Proverbs the way they want it to have been and Proverbs the way it is is all in their mind.
I know now that the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses is a group of men who lean on their own understanding. Tell me please, how am I to know if someone is leaning on their own understanding or on someone else's?
That is how I know that the meaning of Proverbs 3:5 has little to do with your own nonsense. It is about God's will that you do not rest yourself on a belief. Any belief, imo.
That is how I know that the meaning of Proverbs 3:5 has little to do with your own nonsense. It is about God's will that you do not rest yourself on a belief. Any belief, imo.
That is correct.
Let's just agree that own is an adjective, so the word YOU want is threefold. That complicates it, imo.
It isn't my opinion that the word own is an adjective. It is an adjective.
It is my opinion that you are wrongly shoving an adjective into a word where it doesn't belong. I might be wrong about that ie I am not leaning.
It is my opinion that you are wrongly shoving an adjective into a word where it doesn't belong. I might be wrong about that ie I am not leaning.
rosends
Well-Known Member
It is your opinion that the word is being shoved, and that it doesn't belong. Your use of "leaning" is simply a choice of what of the 3 meanings of "sh-ayin-nun" root you want, and if anything, your choice to trust in your own opinion is exactly what the verse cautions against.
I am NOT trusting in my own opinion. It appears that you are though.
A Jehovah's Witness is not allowed to have her own opinion.
Does a faithful JW have an opinion? Yes! Jehovah's Witnesses opinions are not their OWN.
Does a faithful JW have an opinion? Yes! Jehovah's Witnesses opinions are not their OWN.
Consider your own language, would you get everything correct if you took that approach to it? There is information in context and standard usage that can't be conveyed directly by the text itself.
You are also trusting the expertise of the lexicographer you select to provide the best understanding in your language of the various words. Now, I'm not saying you are wrong to do so.
I had to read this a few times. I wouldn't get everything correct no matter what I did.
The word in dispute seems to be one word. I understand why they make it two words, your understanding. I don't understand why they think it is righteous to made it three words, your own understanding.
Like I keep saying, it is certainly possible to have an opinion (understanding) that is not your own.....and I think, most people do!
This might be an exaggeration, but I can hear Proverbs 3:5 saying,"have an opinion to lean on , but let it not be your own".
rosends
Well-Known Member
Really? So when you say, "It is my opinion that you are wrongly shoving an adjective into a word where it doesn't belong." you aren't trusting what it is you just admitted was your opinion? So then there is no value to it because you don't trust what you say?
That's confusing.
I trust there is a difference between nouns and adjectives. I know of no other word like you have. Can you give me another example?
Do you have another example where the noun and the adjective are together in the same word?