james2ko
Well-Known Member
Noah and Abraham had faith...thats why they found favor with God. We do have a God given conscience that dictates right and wrong...these men lived in harmony with their conscience according to their faith in God. And if you really believe that the mosaic laws were what they were obeying, then you'd be mistaken. Abraham married his half sister...something the mosaic law forbade.
I never said the Law of Moses was in full effect since creation. It was the Ten commandments and other laws. When Adam was created, he did not instinctively have knowledge of these laws and statutes. That knowledge had to be revealed to him. He had to be taught the difference between right and wrong--sin and righteousness. Similar to a father revealing right from wrong to his child: Paul confirms this concept:
Rom 4:15 because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression.
Adam sinned. Sin is not imputed--does not apply--where there is no law. Death was initiated by Adam. (Remember, death is the penalty for sin, which is defined as the transgression of the law.) The only way Adam and his descendants could sin-break God’s spiritual law-is if God’s great spiritual law had been revealed to them!!
There was no sabbath observance before Moses gave the law to the isrealites...
Sorry Pegg, but that is not what the bible teaches. Notice what God said to the Israelites when they went out to gather manna on the sabbath. This was "before" the law was given at Sinai:
Exo 16:28 "How long refuse you [Israel] to keep My commandments and My laws?”
The Israelites were in Egyptian bondage for so long they had lost knowledge of God's law. At Sinai, God was merely reminding them of the laws which were already in force since creation. This is why God specifically stated in the fourth commandment, "remember the Sabbath..." what was there to remember if that was the first time they'd been given the law? This proves without a shadow of a doubt the fourth commandment was in effect before it was given at Sinai.
Abraham, Noah and others had no sabbath law from God -
No direct command from God about the Sabbath for these individuals but there is evidence it was in effect since creation. Notice how in Exo 31:17, God directly correlates the keeping of the weekly Sabbath for the Israelites to His rest in Gen 2:2-3.
they only had their faith and their God given conscience. An example is that of young Joseph after he was sold into Egypt. He had no laws from God yet he knew that adultery was a sin against God...when Potiphers wife tried to seduce him he said "how can i commit this badness against God?" How did he know adultery was bad? It was in his conscience.
A human being's conscience is developed and influenced by outside stimuli. Such was the case with Adam who was taught the 10 commandments by God which in turn Adam taught his children and so on. Cain knew murder was wrong because Adam conveyed to him God's laws and not because Cain instinctively knew it was wrong.
for instance, can you explain why there are two Sabbaths mentioned in the bible? The first sabbath is the mosaic law sabbath requiring the Isrealites to spend one day a week to honor God....what is the other sabbath and how do christians observe it?
There is only one Seventh Day Sabbath per weekly cycle as indicated by the command. The term "Sabbaths" in various scriptures refers to not only the weekly Sabbath but the annual Sabbaths [Holy Days] as well (Lev 23). At times, the plural form of "sabbath" refers to the 52 weekly sabbaths that occur throughout the year. (Exo 31:13)
thats a good and noble thing to do, so long as you understand what you are preaching. Im not convinced you fully understand the sabbath,
If you think you can understand the Sabbath command better than those Christians who are actually keeping it, you are only deceiving yourself (Jas 1:22)
The Sabbath day under the mosaic law was a sign of the covenant between God and Isreal...even you acknowledge that a new covenant has been brought into effect, so why would you think that christians must cling to the old?
You are under the false impression the sabbath commandment died with the OC and is no longer binding in the New. This is simply not true. In Exodus 31:12-17, God made a special covenant with Israel regarding His Sabbath. God explains that His purpose is that the Sabbath "sanctifies" those who keep it. They are set apart as belonging to--being owned by--God. Christians are told, "You are bought with a price; be not you the servants of men" (1 Cor. 7:23) and "You are bought with a price: therefore glorify God" (1 Cor. 6:20).
Those who observe the Sabbath are signified as God’s people--and that He owns them. They are also publicly identified as people who keep the Commandments. Civil laws require people to keep several of the other Commandments (against stealing, murder, lying [perjury], etc.). Therefore, obedience to most or all of the other Commandments, which the world at least generally acknowledges in one form or another, does not identify one as a commandment-keeper! The Sabbath does! It is a sign that people are of God, since no human would ever think or choose to keep this law without it having been revealed by God.
The sabbath was a perpetual covenant (Ex 31:16) to be obeyed for all time by physical Israel and by extension spiritual Israel [NT church] based on Gal 3:29 and the example of Christ and His disciples. The Ten commandments were considered and treated as separate and distinct from the "Law of Moses". It was not done away by the establishment of the NC and there is no passage in the NT commanding its abolishment. But there is every indication it is still binding! Christ irrefutably confirms this by disclosing to us His true NT church will be keeping the Sabbath at the end time--which is right now!!!!! (Matthew 24:20)
Last edited: