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Who says Christ did away with the Law??

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by compvett, Aug 9, 2010.

  1. Jacksnyte

    Jacksnyte Reverend

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    Which is what makes this country GREAT! The fact that we were not founded on Christianity, but on the seperation of church and state! I personally shudder to think what would happen if we had a Christian Theocracy here!
     
  2. tripleog2010

    tripleog2010 Member

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    I'm not sure how to use this forum's software so bear with me while I learn it.

    If any writing conforms to the commandments and I would also add to the natural law that God set forth, then it is usable. My faith in God is not centered on the Bible any longer. The book as a whole is too corrupted, although there are a lot of good writings, but just like anything else, it has to be checked. I think that God certainly doesn't depend upon the Bible for confirmation of His existence. I think people make a faith in God much too difficult than it needs to be.
     
  3. tripleog2010

    tripleog2010 Member

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    This country was founded upon a feudal concept because of the oath in the United States Constitution. The oath of fidelity goes back thousands of years.
    Basically, any man who takes an oath is a liar because when he takes it he doesn't really know for sure if he can keep it. This is why Christ said not to swear any oaths.

    People think this nation is a "Christian" nation, but the truth is that if was founded by a bunch of new age freaks called the freemasons. The constitution is a bankruptcy, tax, and slave document. The kind of government we have insures that only the most depraved and stupid people get into power. If you look at what we got, I doubt anyone would want to argue with me on that point. Having a "Christian" government would be just as bad as having an Islamic one, IMO.
     
  4. Jacksnyte

    Jacksnyte Reverend

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    Actually, the original ideal of this government was patterned after the Iriquois Nations model. It has since been corrupted, and changed to the point that it is now becoming more of a clandestine Empire with a small, rather incestuous upper class, a very large lower class, and a rapidly dwindling middle class. Although we may use different terminology to describe the actions of the U.S. in the past several decades, it amounts to the conquering of as much lucrative real estate as possible across the globe under the guise of liberating people, and pursuing terrorists.
    Freemasonry really plays very little into it. All the Alex Jones-style Illuminati fear-mongering may be a good way to make a fast buck, but it doesn't really hold up to extensive scrutiny. A grand, over-arching conspiracy is unlikely. Several powerful families trying to run as much as they possibly can, and to own as much as they possibly can makes more sense.
     
    #124 Jacksnyte, Mar 8, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2011
  5. tripleog2010

    tripleog2010 Member

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    The Pauline Epistles are unreliable for many reasons. I believe these writings were done in such a way to deceive "Christians" into thinking that they don't have to keep God's commandments. What these writings have done is to promulgate lawlessness in the "Christian" church. We now have so many variations of "Christians" that everyone seems to be confused. But looking at the conduct of the christian's and the pastors reveal that they don't really have any intention in being obedient to God.
     
  6. Spelk

    Spelk New Member

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    For my part - and apologies if someone has stated this before - I follow Colossians 2: 17 "These are only a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ," that is, the Law was a shadow. To me, the Law of Moses has been replaced by the Law of Christ (Paul calls it the Law of Liberty), which can be expressed in only one word: love.
    Other parts of the NT describe the Mosaic Law as "weak and useless" (Heb 7:18) adding that it has been set aside, as well as Jesus having "abolished in his flesh the law of commandments and ordinances" (Eph 2:15). Paul also writes that "where there is a change in the priesthood [i.e. Jesus becoming High Priest for ever], there is necessarily a change in the Law as well" (Heb 7:12)

    Just my thoughts.
    [SIZE=+0][SIZE=+0][/SIZE][/SIZE]
     
  7. Ronald

    Ronald Well-Known Member

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    Again, if Christians were Christ-like and/or followed Him, we would not be having this discussion.
    He kept the commandments.
    I am really confused as to how they (Christians) can be so oblivious to that fact.
     
  8. Pegg

    Pegg Jehovah our God is One

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    Jesus was a jew under mosaic law...of course he kept the commandments

    but the fact is that with the arrival of the messiah, the law covenant was going to change...the new covenant, as spoken by Jeremiah, would not come into effect until AFTER the Messiah had been sacrificed. From that point on Christs followers were to come under the arrangement of the new covenant and this is why the Apostles preached the end of the mosaic law

    Christians can still follow christ without following the mosaic law because following Christ means to obey God. God made a new arrangement for Jesus followers to adhere to...if we ignore that and obey the mosaic law, then we are not obeying God at all.
     
  9. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Oldest Heretic

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    The short answer is.....
    The Jewish law has never been abolished
    just its application to Christians. (specifically Gentiles)
    This was proposed by Paul and confirmed by Jesus brother, James, in Jerusalem.

    The long answer is just a filling out of the short answer with detail.
     
  10. james2ko

    james2ko Well-Known Member

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    I believe the confusion lies in the premise the Ten Commandments were first given at Sinai. The Law of God (10 commandments) was established at creation. At Sinai, God simply reminded the Israelites of the commandments their forefathers once knew (Gen 26:5) but after centuries in bondage, they had forgotten.

    What most Christians fail to realize is the 10 commandments could not be abolished when the Old Covenant ceased to exist because the abolishment of the covenant could not destroy what it did not bring into existence. The Old Covenant was merely an agreement to keep these laws which were in force before God uttered them from Sinai (Ex 16:28).
     
  11. Ronald

    Ronald Well-Known Member

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    Where In plain language is that written?
    I see you guys out all over the world saying "Know the Lord" the new covenant is not yet!!!!!!
    I change not.
    Yeshua same yesterday today and forever.
    But you say they lie, they changed the law for christians to get to heaven.
    Balderdash!!!!!!!!!:run:
     
  12. Ronald

    Ronald Well-Known Member

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    Most Christians love to be lied to!
    God Y H V H knew the END from the Beginning!
    When everyone opens their hearts to the truth and Y H V H places the Law in the heart of flesh, all will follow Yeshua/Torah/the living word of God.
    Just one shabbat!! And the end will come.
    Grace and Glory be to Y H V H our Lord, our Savior, Our God.
    Thank you Y H V H for your gift of love, your only begotten son sacrificed for all sinners who ask you to save them, the blood of the "Lamb of God" painted on the door posts of your heart."For Many are called, but few are chosen.":yes:
     
  13. james2ko

    james2ko Well-Known Member

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    I believe it's actually God's will they do not understand. God is withholding salvation from most of mankind in this age (Mar 4:10-12; Mat 13:11-16). That includes the vast majority of professing Christianity (Mat 7:21-23). He is using Satan, like a pawn, as His primary tool of deception (Rev 12:9; 2Co 11:13-15). Although Christians are sincere about their beliefs, which is commendable, sincerity does not always equate to truth.
     
  14. tripleog2010

    tripleog2010 Member

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    If I have to choose between the teachings of Paul and the teachings of Christ I would choose the teachings of Christ. Christ put a lot of value upon the commandments which are a big part of the natural law. And if you look at the complete idiocy of government and religion (essentially the same things) you can see the value of the commandments.

    "Thou shalt not lie." Wow! When did you ever see any political or religious person tell the truth? When it comes to religious matters, most of us have a hard time discerning the truth because so many lies are told.

    I believe that Paul may have been a heretic or his writings were very badly distorted, but I find his writings unusable. The big giveaway is the fact that Paul appears to swear oaths at least five times in his epistles when Christs taught against the swearing of oaths. This a big part of the idiocy of disobeying God.

    Fearing God and keeping his commandments is all a man is responsible for and there is no requirement to read this or that.
     
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  15. tripleog2010

    tripleog2010 Member

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    The problem is the fact that all men are required to keep the commandments. It has nothing to do with Jews or Gentiles, in my opinion. How can there be one set of laws for one group of people and another for a separate group. That doesn't make any sense. I think all of the various religions make things more difficult than they need to be. In fact, I would say that most religions that I am aware of are destructive to any man's soul. There is no end to the stupidity of religion that advocates that the commandments are no longer important. They are extremely important.
     
  16. tripleog2010

    tripleog2010 Member

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    If you really think there is separation of church and state, you are mistakenly wrong. The church and state are both the same thing. If you look closely at history, you will find the influence of Satan in every part of government and religion. The government is the pagan enforcer of satanic doctrines. Their symbols are all over the place: five pointed
    star, all seeing eye, and annu signature (looks like British flag). We are existing under a pagan theocracy of which false christianity is just another flavor.

    If you don't believe me then just look at what they do and that will tell you what you need to know.
     
  17. tripleog2010

    tripleog2010 Member

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    All of it centers around keeping God's commandments. The rest of it may provide good drama, but it is tenuous at best. Saying that God uses Satan like a pawn is evil in itself.
    That God is intentionally trying to trick people into going to hell. No, people choose who they wish to obey: either God or Satan. And so the bad fruit of evil spills upon the land and now we are really starting to see the resulting judgment.

    The commandments are the most important tool for a believer in God. They have the power of God; nothing else has that.
     
  18. james2ko

    james2ko Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't sound like the kind of God I would want to worship. The only "hell" [hades] these folks are going to see is the grave. Those who are being deceived in this age will be resurrected to physical life after (Rev 20:11-12) Christ's 1,000 year reign (Rev 20:5) and Satan's eternal imprisonment. They will be given 100 yrs to accept or reject salvation (Isa 65:20).

    Once they experience the gargantuan difference between this life and the mind-boggling change created by 1,000 years of obedience to God's ways, the decision to accept Christ will be made by the overwhelming majority. Yes, that's right our merciful God says they will get a second chance at life but this time the veil of deception will be lifted (Isa 25:6-7) and they will experience their first real, unhindered opportunity for eternal life. Now that's the kind of God I want to worship.
     
  19. Ronald

    Ronald Well-Known Member

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    This will cause many to get "whiplash"!

    You! Are beyond a doubt, one of those from whom he has with held salvation.

    You make a mockery out of the bible and God!

    Through out my study of the bible, I find that God makes it possible for all who want to know him to find him, with or with out the Christian church.
    John 7:17 if any man's will is to do his will, he shall know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority.
    Matthew 18:14So it is not the will of my Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish.
    2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow about his promise as some count slowness, but is forbearing toward you, not wishing that any should perish , but that all should reach repentance.
    Luke 12:2 "For there is nothing covered that will not be revealed, nor hidden that will not be known.
    Torah is the word of God/truth. Yeshua is the living Torah/truth.

     
  20. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Oldest Heretic

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    The law and the 10 commandments are not the same thing.
    Christians accept that the ten commandments are universal.

    However, much of the Jewish faith and customs revolve around their law, and their covenant with God. That law and covenant applies to Jews no one else.
     
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