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Featured Which Day of the Week Is The Sabbath?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by sooda, Mar 29, 2019.

  1. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    What makes you think so?

    "The Passover was always observed on Nisan (Abib) 14, being on or near the day of full moon, inasmuch as the first day of every month (lunar month) in the Jewish calendar was the day of the new moon, as determined by visual observation. Therefore the 14th day of the month would be about the middle of a lunation. The date of Jesus’ death is shown in the article JESUS CHRIST (Time of his death) to be Nisan 14, 33 C.E.

    It was on the evening before his death that Jesus observed his last Passover meal and afterward instituted the Lord’s Evening Meal. Even before the Memorial meal began, the traitorous Judas was sent out, at which time, according to the record, “it was night.” (Joh 13:30) Since the days of the Jewish calendar ran from evening of one day to evening of the next, the Lord’s Evening Meal was celebrated also on Nisan 14, on Thursday evening, March 31."

    Lord’s Evening Meal — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
     
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  2. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    The Sanhedrin would not have met if it was already Passover.

    We don't know what year Jesus was born or which Bethlehem is his birthplace.
     
  3. MJFlores

    MJFlores John 15:19

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    I believe....
    You are still not counting.
    Why are you afraid to count?
    Ah, because your tradition is short.

    Why would Jesus write his story?
    Didn't he had disciples to do that?
    Maybe Trump could write his own story, because he thinks of himself highly.

     
  4. MJFlores

    MJFlores John 15:19

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    Yes they do
    And you can't count.
     
  5. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    The Sanhedrin was not to convene at night. They broke the rules.

    There were two towns named Bethlehem....the Bible states which one.

    In prophesy Micah wrote...."But as for you, Bethlehem H1035 Ephrathah, H672
    Too little H6810 to be among the clans H505 of Judah, H3063
    From you One will go H3318 forth H3318 for Me to be ruler H4910 in Israel. H3478
    H4163 forth H4163 are from long H6924 ago, H6924
    From the days H3117 of eternity.”
    H5769 (NASB) (from Strongs)

    Genesis 35:19 indicates that Ephrathah was the place where Rachel was buried...also called Bethlehem.

    The fixing of Jesus’ baptism in the year 29 C.E., when he was thirty years old, also establishes the date of his birth as the year 2 B.C.E., in the fall.
     
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  6. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    Sooda wrote……… In John 19:14 we are told that Jesus was before Pilate for trial at the sixth hour. But in Mark 15:25 we are told that it was the third hour when he was crucified.

    The Anointed……. Jesus said; “A day has twelve hours has it not, so work while the light is with you.” The 12 hours of daylight followed the twelve hours of Darkness. Even your scientists today, will agree that light came out of Darkness.

    Sooda wrote……… The explanation is simple: John described the events by using the Roman time while Mark, who wrote much earlier, described the same events by using Jewish time.

    Otherwise there is a contradiction and Jesus was crucified before he was tried. Actually he was

    before Pilate at about 6: 00 A.M. and crucified at about 9: 00 A.M. If one does not recognize this principle, there is no sensible explanation possible.

    The Anointed……. Good heavens woman, are you really that ignorant to the scriptures that you attack?
    Your explanation of the arrest, trial, conviction and murder of Jesus by the Jews, who used the Romans as their murder weapon, is ridiculous to say the least, and reveals your ignorance to the scriptures, that in your ignorance and hatred for those scriptures, you blindly attack.

    For one who claims to have read the bible seven times, you prove that your memory retention is absolutely shocking. Did you forget reading Chapter one, of the book of Genesis, which reveals that the Hebrews believed that their day began at evening

    And there was evening and morning the first day.
    And there was evening and morning the second day
    And there was evening and morning the third day.
    And there was evening and morning the fourth day
    And there was evening and morning the fifth day.
    And there was evening and morning the sixth day

    Concerning the festival of Passover, we read in Exodus 12: 14; “You must celebrate ‘THIS DAY’ as a religious Festival to remind you of what I the Lord have done. Celebrate it for all time to come.

    The one-day festival of Passover, was immediately followed by the seven-day festival of Unleavened Bread.

    Leviticus 23: 5; “In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month in the evening [Which is the beginning of the 14th day] is the Lord’s Passover. And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the seven-day festival of Unleavened Bread.

    By the time of Jesus, the Jews had incorporated the one-day festival of Passover into their seven day festival of Unleavened Bread.

    .Matthew 26: 17; Now on the first day of Unleavened Bread, the disciples came to Jesus saying, “Where will you have us prepare for you to eat the Passover?”

    Mark 14: 12; And on the first day of Unleavened Bread when they sacrificed the Passover Lamb, etc.

    Luke 22: 7; Then came the day of Unleavened Bread, on which the Passover Lambs were killed etc.

    22: 14; Jesus says to his disciples; “I have wanted so much to eat this Passover meal with you before I suffer, etc.

    As the Jews had incorporated the one day festival of Passover into their seven day festival of Unleavened Bread, which began as the sun set of the 14th day, which 14th day by then, was the day of preparation to their 15th day of the first month, we see that Jesus, the reality of the Passover Lamb, ate the Passover meal on the correct day that was prescribed by the Lord, in the evening and beginning of the 14th day of the first month.

    But Jesus, the reality of the Pascal Lamb, and his disciples did not eat a lamb, because Jesus substituted the bread and wine, which symbolically represented his body and blood, for the Pascal Lamb.

    According to John !3; It was the day before the Jewish Passover festival, that he ate his last supper with his disciples, this was in the evening and beginning of the day of preparation to the Jewish seven-day festival that they called ‘PASSOVER.”

    After the evening meal he retired to the Garden to pray, where Judas and the Jewish guards came with lanterns to light up the darkness of the night of the day of preparation to their Passover, the night he was sentenced at about the sixth hour of that night (Midnight) to die, this was after the wife of Pilate sent him a message, [Matthew 27: 19.] which said; “Have nothing to do with that righteous man, for I have suffered much over him TODAY [The day of preparation to the Passover] in a dream.

    So it was while she was sleeping in the darkness of the 12 hour night of the day of preparation that she had the dream.

    At midnight, Jesus was sentenced to die, he was then taken away and mocked and scourged by the Romans, nailed to the cross on the third hour of the 12 hours of Daylight (9 AM) at the 6th hour (mid-day) darkness covered the land for three hours, and on the 9Th hour (3 PM) on the day of preparation to the Jewish Passover, he died, and was buried as the sun set of the 14th day of the month, Just as the Jews were sitting down to their Passover meal in the evening and beginning of the 15th day of the first month.

    John 18: 28; It was early on the day of preparation to the Passover, that the Jews took Jesus from the house of Caiaphas to the Gentiles Praetorium, where, at midnight on the day of preparation to the Passover, Jesus would be sentenced to die.

    Those Jews would not enter the gentile Praetorium that night, because they would have been defiled and unable to eat of their Passover meal in the evening and beginning of the 15th day.
     
    #66 The Anointed, Mar 30, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2019
  7. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    This has already been covered.. John is writing for a gentile audience and is using midnight to midnight Roman time.. You remember, don't you? Romans controlled Palestine.

    The Praetorium is just Fortress Antonia and it housed small contingent of Roman soldiers.
     
  8. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    The Last Supper is the final meal that, in the Gospel accounts, Jesus shared with his Apostles in Jerusalem before his crucifixion.

    The Last Supper is commemorated by Christians especially on Maundy Thursday. The Last Supper provides the scriptural basis for the Eucharist, also known as "Holy Communion" or "The Lord's Supper".

    The First Epistle to the Corinthians contains the earliest known mention of the Last Supper. The four canonical Gospels all state that the Last Supper took place towards the end of the week, after Jesus's triumphal entry into Jerusalem and that Jesus and his Apostles shared a meal shortly before Jesus was crucified at the end of that week.

    During the meal Jesus predicts his betrayal by one of the Apostles present, and foretells that before the next morning, Peter will deny knowing him.

    All Gospels agree that Jesus held a Last Supper with his disciples prior to dying on a Friday at or just before the time of Passover (annually on 15 Nisan, the official Jewish day beginning at sunset) and that his body was left in the tomb for the whole of the next day, which was a Shabbat (Saturday)

    Humphreys' implication is that Jesus and other communities were following the original Hebrew calendar putatively imported from Egypt by Moses (which requires calculating the time of the invisible new moon), rather than the official Jewish calendar which had been adopted more recently, in the 6th century BC during the Babylonian exile (which simply requires observing the visible waxing moon).

    A Last Supper on Wednesday, he argues, would allow more time than in the traditional view (Last Supper on Thursday) for the various interrogations of Jesus and his presentation to Pilate before he was crucified on Friday.

    Furthermore, a Wednesday Last Supper, followed by a Thursday daylight Sanhedrin trial, followed by a Friday judicial confirmation and crucifixion would not require violating Jewish court procedure as documented in the 2nd century, which forbade capital trials at night and moreover required a confirmatory session the following day.

    Last Supper - Wikipedia
     
  9. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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  10. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    The 15th day of the first month, which is the beginning of the 7 day festival of Unleavened Bread, which is supposed to follow the one day festival of Passover, can fall on any day of the week. Please reveal your evidence, which is supposed to support the erroneous belief, that in the year of the death of Jesus, it fell on a Friday.

    As I have said, The 15th day of the first month, can fall on any day of the week., and the first and last days of the festival of Unleavened bread, Irrelevant as to what day of the week on which they fall, are Sabbaths, on which no work can be done.
     
  11. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Sabbat always begins at sundown on Friday.

    The Feast of Unleavened Bread is a feast that is generally mistaken for Passover. Passover however is only one 24 hour period while Feast of Unleavened Bread lasts for seven days.

    On the evening after Passover God told the Hebrew people exiting Egypt not to allow their bread to rise, but to grab everything and leave.

    The Sanhedrin didn't meet on Passover or at night.. The last supper wasn't the Passover meal.
     
    #71 sooda, Mar 30, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2019
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  12. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    If the Last supper was not the Passover meal, which was to be held in the evening and beginning of the 14th day of Nisan, a day before the 15th day, which was the first day of the seven day festival of Unleavened Bread, then why did Jesus say to his disciples in Luke 22: 15; "I have wanted so much to eat THIS [I repeat "THIS"] Passover meal with you."

    And you claim to have read the bible seven times? Give us all a break girly.

    Only the weekly seven day Sabbath, which is but a shadow of the future reality, falls on a Friday. But the first and the seventh days of the festival of unleavened Bread, The 15th day of the first month and the 21st day of the same month, which can fall on any day of the week, are also Sabbaths.
     
  13. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Luke wasn't there.. He was the Greek disciple of Paul who also wasn't there.

    The Sanhedrin wouldn't have met on Passover or at night, nor would they have met during the 7 days that followed.

    Upcoming Passover it 4/19/2019.. Passover is celebrated on the 14th day of Nisan at the time of the full moon.

    Every so often the Jewish leap year will push Passover so far into April that a second full moon following the vernal equinox would appear before the Sunday following Passover.

    This happens anytime the Sunday following Passover falls later than April 25th on our calendar. On those rare occasions Easter is celebrated the month before Passover rather than the Sunday following Passover.
     
  14. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Passover Friday April 19, 2019.
     
  15. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Correct, as the entire Sanhedrin could not meet on Passover. If there was an emergency whereas a decision had to immediately be made, one man in the Sanhedrin would make that decision and the others could review it after Pesach was over.

    John's gospel says that Jesus and the Twelve broke bread on the "preparation day" for Pesach, which likely was Thursday evening if we go by that gospel account.
     
  16. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Exactly...

    This year Passover is Friday April 19, 2019.

    The early church was faced with the following conflict in dates: Jesus rose on a Sunday, but Passover can fall on various days of the week. So the early church saw two options:

    1. Celebrate Easter in strict relation to the 14th of Nisan without regard for the day of the week, or
    2. Determine a system whereby Easter could always be celebrated on a Sunday.

    Although the issue was hotly debated and variously practiced during the first centuries of the church, the Council of Nicea in 325 A.D. eventually adopted the current system of celebrating Easter on the Sunday following the full moon after the vernal equinox.

    Since the Second Vatican Council in 1963 there has been new discussion about fixing the date of Easter on a set Sunday such as the first or second Sunday in April. However, no progress has been made thus far towards such a change.
     
  17. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    If they broke bread Thursday evening, and if Pesach began Friday sundown, then the teaching that Jesus rose from the dead on the third day would be correct. IOW, he died on Friday and rose Sunday morning = 3 days. Viola! :)
     
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  18. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Passover 2019
    • begins Friday, April 19
      • at sunset (in 20 days)
    • ends Saturday, April 27
      • at nightfall
     
  19. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Yep, and we will be celebrating it.
     
  20. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    From your link.. You think burying people in a wall of cut and paste makes you look smart?

    14 After two days was the feast of the passover, and of unleavened bread: and the chief priests and the scribes sought how they might take him by craft, and put him to death.

    2 But they said, Not on the feast day, lest there be an uproar of the people.
     
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