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Genesis 1
1 In the beginning, Yahweh created earth and sky (or, heaven).So what does 'light' mean here? Well, we're told there's mayim ─ 'water', 'urine', but the first seems more likely; and it doesn't say qerach, 'ice', 'frost', 'crystal'. For water not to be ice, there must be ambient energy, so the EM spectrum already exists.
2. The earth was shapeless, empty and dark.
Water existed.
3 Yahweh said, "Let there be light"; and there was light.
Thus Yahweh has already created an EM spectrum, but it has at least one gap in it, the place where visible light goes.
So when Yahweh says 'owr! ─ 'light', 'daylight', 'dawn' but we don't have a sun yet ─ then light at wavelengths 390 to 700 nm or so comes into being.
How? How does magic work?
Here, plainly, a command is required. It's very like the old joke, where Yahweh says, Let there be light! and nothing happens till he says, Let there be light ─ please. Who's being commanded? Some angel in charge of the physics? Who has to get out the books, identify the problem, and its cause, and the solution, round up a field team and then actually do whatever's required?
It must be something like that, no?
Using this as an example, how do miracles get done? It's all very well to utter magic words, but someone's got to do the sums, the planning, and the legwork.
Anyone know?
Actually, you need to dispense with magic, and think science instead. Once you do this, you also must, absolutely must - if you want to understand the narrative, realize that things told us are from the perspective of a person standing on earth.Genesis 1
1 In the beginning, Yahweh created earth and sky (or, heaven).So what does 'light' mean here? Well, we're told there's mayim ─ 'water', 'urine', but the first seems more likely; and it doesn't say qerach, 'ice', 'frost', 'crystal'. For water not to be ice, there must be ambient energy, so the EM spectrum already exists.
2. The earth was shapeless, empty and dark.
Water existed.
3 Yahweh said, "Let there be light"; and there was light.
Thus Yahweh has already created an EM spectrum, but it has at least one gap in it, the place where visible light goes.
So when Yahweh says 'owr! ─ 'light', 'daylight', 'dawn' but we don't have a sun yet ─ then light at wavelengths 390 to 700 nm or so comes into being.
How? How does magic work?
Here, plainly, a command is required. It's very like the old joke, where Yahweh says, Let there be light! and nothing happens till he says, Let there be light ─ please. Who's being commanded? Some angel in charge of the physics? Who has to get out the books, identify the problem, and its cause, and the solution, round up a field team and then actually do whatever's required?
It must be something like that, no?
Using this as an example, how do miracles get done? It's all very well to utter magic words, but someone's got to do the sums, the planning, and the legwork.
Anyone know?
Fool
you are the light of the world.
Very kind of you, but more like I'm light on in the world.
Are you just imposing what we know now (i.e. that daylight comes from the Sun) on an ancient culture that didn't necessarily believe that?According to the Talmud, based on some inconsistencies with this verse, it doesn't refer to light as we know it. That didn't come until the fourth day.
Thank you, Tumah. Interesting stuff.If you look at every other creationary act, whenever it says "let there be", it says..
let me guess ......Genesis 1
1 In the beginning, Yahweh created earth and sky (or, heaven).So what does 'light' mean here? Well, we're told there's mayim ─ 'water', 'urine', but the first seems more likely; and it doesn't say qerach, 'ice', 'frost', 'crystal'. For water not to be ice, there must be ambient energy, so the EM spectrum already exists.
2. The earth was shapeless, empty and dark.
Water existed.
3 Yahweh said, "Let there be light"; and there was light.
Thus Yahweh has already created an EM spectrum, but it has at least one gap in it, the place where visible light goes.
So when Yahweh says 'owr! ─ 'light', 'daylight', 'dawn' but we don't have a sun yet ─ then light at wavelengths 390 to 700 nm or so comes into being.
How? How does magic work?
Here, plainly, a command is required. It's very like the old joke, where Yahweh says, Let there be light! and nothing happens till he says, Let there be light ─ please. Who's being commanded? Some angel in charge of the physics? Who has to get out the books, identify the problem, and its cause, and the solution, round up a field team and then actually do whatever's required?
It must be something like that, no?
Using this as an example, how do miracles get done? It's all very well to utter magic words, but someone's got to do the sums, the planning, and the legwork.
Anyone know?
No, that's the actual argument in the Talmud. Translation mine (with notes and brackets for elucidation):Are you just imposing what we know now (i.e. that daylight comes from the Sun) on an ancient culture that didn't necessarily believe that?
Genesis 1
1 In the beginning, Yahweh created earth and sky (or, heaven).So what does 'light' mean here? Well, we're told there's mayim ─ 'water', 'urine', but the first seems more likely; and it doesn't say qerach, 'ice', 'frost', 'crystal'. For water not to be ice, there must be ambient energy, so the EM spectrum already exists.
2. The earth was shapeless, empty and dark.
Water existed.
3 Yahweh said, "Let there be light"; and there was light.
Thus Yahweh has already created an EM spectrum, but it has at least one gap in it, the place where visible light goes.
So when Yahweh says 'owr! ─ 'light', 'daylight', 'dawn' but we don't have a sun yet ─ then light at wavelengths 390 to 700 nm or so comes into being.
How? How does magic work?
Here, plainly, a command is required. It's very like the old joke, where Yahweh says, Let there be light! and nothing happens till he says, Let there be light ─ please. Who's being commanded? Some angel in charge of the physics? Who has to get out the books, identify the problem, and its cause, and the solution, round up a field team and then actually do whatever's required?
It must be something like that, no?
Using this as an example, how do miracles get done? It's all very well to utter magic words, but someone's got to do the sums, the planning, and the legwork.
Anyone know?
Genesis 1
1 In the beginning, Yahweh created earth and sky (or, heaven).So what does 'light' mean here? Well, we're told there's mayim ─ 'water', 'urine', but the first seems more likely; and it doesn't say qerach, 'ice', 'frost', 'crystal'. For water not to be ice, there must be ambient energy, so the EM spectrum already exists.
2. The earth was shapeless, empty and dark.
Water existed.
3 Yahweh said, "Let there be light"; and there was light.
Thus Yahweh has already created an EM spectrum, but it has at least one gap in it, the place where visible light goes.
So when Yahweh says 'owr! ─ 'light', 'daylight', 'dawn' but we don't have a sun yet ─ then light at wavelengths 390 to 700 nm or so comes into being.
How? How does magic work?
Here, plainly, a command is required. It's very like the old joke, where Yahweh says, Let there be light! and nothing happens till he says, Let there be light ─ please. Who's being commanded? Some angel in charge of the physics? Who has to get out the books, identify the problem, and its cause, and the solution, round up a field team and then actually do whatever's required?
It must be something like that, no?
Using this as an example, how do miracles get done? It's all very well to utter magic words, but someone's got to do the sums, the planning, and the legwork.
Anyone know?
Why do you think this is true?and to say....I AM!....
is synonymous to....Let there be light!
When was that passage written? I suspect some revisionism based on the knowledge of the time.No, that's the actual argument in the Talmud. Translation mine (with notes and brackets for elucidation):
And Rav Yehudah said in the name of Rav 'Ten things were created on the first day and these are they: heavens, earth, tohu, bohu, light, darkness, wind, water, the measurement of the day and the measurement of the night (ie. 12 hours each)'....
[The Talmud asks:] And was light created on the first day? But it is written, 'And G-d put them (the luminaries) in the firmament of the heavens' and it says 'and it was evening and it was morning, a fourth day'!
[The Talmud answers:] This is according to Rabi Elazar, as Rabi Elazar says, 'With the light that the Holy One blessed be He created on the first day, man could gaze from one end of the world to the other. When the Holy One blessed be He looked at the generation of the flood and the generation of separation [that were to come] and saw that their deeds were ruinous, He arose and hid it from them as it says, "He withheld from the wicked their light (Job 38:15)". And for who did He hide it? For the righteous [in the World] to Come, as it says "And G-d saw the light that it was good" and there is no good, besides the righteous (ie. good refers to righteous people) as it says, "Say to the righteous that [he is] good (Isa. 3:10)". When He saw that the light was hidden for the righteous He was glad, as it say, "the light of the righteous gladdens (Pro. 13:9)".
And [this is according to the following] Tannaic [argument]: 'The light that G-d created on the first day, man could gaze with it from one end of the world to the other', [these are the] words of Rabi Yaakov. The Sages say, 'These [the light of the first day] are these [the luminaries]. The luminaries that were created on the first day, were not hung in their place until the fourth day'
That's the Talmudic passage. There are similar passages in Midrashic sources as well, including what appears to be an argument about whether the light was hidden on the fourth day when the luminaries were created, or at the end of the 7th day.
As you have pointed out, however, none of the explanations will ever give a step by step, never contain any real meat or true answers to questions posed.
Talmud - WikipediaWhen was that passage written? I suspect some revisionism based on the knowledge of the time.
It was fairly common in ancient peoples to believe that the light from the sky in the daytime came from a source other than the Sun (the "firmament", or the solid dome of the sky, usually).
Ok.I think it makes more sense in the context of the story to take it to mean that the glow of "the firmament" was created on the first day and the Sun/moon (along with day/night cycles) were created on the fourth day.
So well after Ptolemy, while the passage was apparently written before mathematical astronomy really became a thing in the region?Talmud - Wikipedia
The Babylonian Talmud was compiled around 500 CE and redacted until around 600 CE.
Think of it this way... with the minds we were given, we were bound to come to these questions eventually. Thus, they become part of our lives. The fewer answers a supposedly all-encompassing book of "how to live life" contains, the less it is going to appeal to the people who have moved on from the more obvious questions. At that point, with no answers forthcoming, human beings will investigate, and push and pull and prod until we come to a satisfactory "answer" or some kind of impenetrable road-block. If God didn't want us poking and prodding, or asking these types of questions, then why isn't that forbidden by the rules He laid out? Does The Torah/Bible ever ONCE mention anything like that?The Torah is a teaching that tells us how to live our lives in a sanctified manner. What would be the point of G-d giving us a step-by-step listing of how He created the universe? Even if we could comprehend it, it isn't relevant to us.
I'm mystified why people think the bible is a science book.
Yeah...So well after Ptolemy, while the passage was apparently written before mathematical astronomy really became a thing in the region?
That's sophistry at its best.He said let there be light and there was light. Then God divided the darkness and the light. Keep in mind, God was creating Heaven and Earth. Heaven got the light, we got the darkness.
Matthew 4:16
the people living in darkness have seen a great light; on those living in the land of the shadow of death, a light has dawned."