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What did "Let there be light!" actually do?

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
A Vestigial Mote

as long as you believe, you're allowed to attribute any positive characteristic you want to God. Ask even one, single question that paints God in a negative light, however, and you're a pariah.

By crikey! I believe you're onto something!
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Seamus marcus

Sciences a study in limited wisdom.

At least it's out there looking. I don't see anyone else systematically reasoning honestly from examinable evidence to provide us with statements about the workings of reality that are as accurate as possible.

Scientific b.s. a story at best.

I fear it won't go away just because it doesn't please you.

Some tend to be in perpetual sleep.

Clay lies still, but blood’s a rover;
Breath’s a ware that will not keep.​
Up, lad: when the journey’s over
There’ll be time enough to sleep.​

(as Housman said.)
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
Genesis 1

1 In the beginning, Yahweh created earth and sky (or, heaven).

2. The earth was shapeless, empty and dark.
Water existed.

3 Yahweh said, "Let there be light"; and there was light.
So what does 'light' mean here? Well, we're told there's mayim ─ 'water', 'urine', but the first seems more likely; and it doesn't say qerach, 'ice', 'frost', 'crystal'. For water not to be ice, there must be ambient energy, so the EM spectrum already exists.

Thus Yahweh has already created an EM spectrum, but it has at least one gap in it, the place where visible light goes.

So when Yahweh says 'owr! ─ 'light', 'daylight', 'dawn' but we don't have a sun yet ─ then light at wavelengths 390 to 700 nm or so comes into being.

How? How does magic work?

Here, plainly, a command is required. It's very like the old joke, where Yahweh says, Let there be light! and nothing happens till he says, Let there be light ─ please. Who's being commanded? Some angel in charge of the physics? Who has to get out the books, identify the problem, and its cause, and the solution, round up a field team and then actually do whatever's required?

It must be something like that, no?

Using this as an example, how do miracles get done? It's all very well to utter magic words, but someone's got to do the sums, the planning, and the legwork.

Anyone know?


In the beginning, love formed/fashioned matter and mind.

2. The matter was shapeless, no thing, and without understanding.
fluidity existed.

3 Love said, "Let there be understanding"; and there was understanding.

and no thing became everything
or I AM that i am


panpsychism and hylozoism

But everything exposed by the light becomes visible--and everything that is illuminated becomes a light.

you are the light of the world.
 
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blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Fool

you are the light of the world.

Very kind of you, but more like I'm light on in the world.
 

Grandliseur

Well-Known Member
Genesis 1

1 In the beginning, Yahweh created earth and sky (or, heaven).

2. The earth was shapeless, empty and dark.
Water existed.

3 Yahweh said, "Let there be light"; and there was light.
So what does 'light' mean here? Well, we're told there's mayim ─ 'water', 'urine', but the first seems more likely; and it doesn't say qerach, 'ice', 'frost', 'crystal'. For water not to be ice, there must be ambient energy, so the EM spectrum already exists.

Thus Yahweh has already created an EM spectrum, but it has at least one gap in it, the place where visible light goes.

So when Yahweh says 'owr! ─ 'light', 'daylight', 'dawn' but we don't have a sun yet ─ then light at wavelengths 390 to 700 nm or so comes into being.

How? How does magic work?

Here, plainly, a command is required. It's very like the old joke, where Yahweh says, Let there be light! and nothing happens till he says, Let there be light ─ please. Who's being commanded? Some angel in charge of the physics? Who has to get out the books, identify the problem, and its cause, and the solution, round up a field team and then actually do whatever's required?

It must be something like that, no?

Using this as an example, how do miracles get done? It's all very well to utter magic words, but someone's got to do the sums, the planning, and the legwork.

Anyone know?
Actually, you need to dispense with magic, and think science instead. Once you do this, you also must, absolutely must - if you want to understand the narrative, realize that things told us are from the perspective of a person standing on earth.

If you do this, and if you are willing to accept these things as from God, it can be understood in scientific terms.

1. So, where are we, first of all? (In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth) this means that the solar system, the earth and the moon - are in their places, more or less.

2. How far along is earth? (Look at verse 2, and 6. 6:, and let it divide the waters from the waters. ) Verse six tells us that from verse 2 we still have an earth that is too hot for the water vapors to settle down as water on the planet, it evaporates when it touches the planet. This tells us how opaque the atmosphere is.
The atmosphere at this stage is then too dense, dirty to let light through, it is not a question of whether the sun shines.
When a proto-sun starts shining, a lot of interstellar debris needs being gotten rid of, which the solar winds begins to do.
As we see here: 5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night.
What this means is that this is the time God caused the earth to begin to rotate as he desired, the human 24 day cycle. 1st Terra-forming day
Atmosphere

At this stage, we might then have both the debris between the sun and the planets, plus the dirty atmosphere of the earth that obscured the light from the sun.
(3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. ) Again, from the perspective of the person standing on the surface of the earth, God caused both the debris from the interstellar environment to clear out gradually, and the earth's atmosphere to gradually clean up. Light began to be sensed on the surface of the earth. This was accomplished in Terra-forming day one, of at least 7000 years length and with a max that remains unknown.

Please reference this link for a description of how scientists think our atmosphere was early on: https://www.space.com/23514-moon-crash-earth-magma-ocean.html

3. Now it is time for the seas to be formed. The earth finally has cooled down enough for the water to settle down as seas. This took another 7000 years at least, or much more. 2nd Terra-forming day

4. 3rd Terra-forming day (min. 7000 years, max unknown)

Shall I continue? The Bible may be understood, but only if you are willing to read it according to certain criteria. Most people do not want to. And, frankly, God caused it to be written so that this willingness to study, to believe his word has to be present to be able to understand it.
 
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9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
According to the Talmud, based on some inconsistencies with this verse, it doesn't refer to light as we know it. That didn't come until the fourth day.
Are you just imposing what we know now (i.e. that daylight comes from the Sun) on an ancient culture that didn't necessarily believe that?
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Genesis 1

1 In the beginning, Yahweh created earth and sky (or, heaven).

2. The earth was shapeless, empty and dark.
Water existed.

3 Yahweh said, "Let there be light"; and there was light.
So what does 'light' mean here? Well, we're told there's mayim ─ 'water', 'urine', but the first seems more likely; and it doesn't say qerach, 'ice', 'frost', 'crystal'. For water not to be ice, there must be ambient energy, so the EM spectrum already exists.

Thus Yahweh has already created an EM spectrum, but it has at least one gap in it, the place where visible light goes.

So when Yahweh says 'owr! ─ 'light', 'daylight', 'dawn' but we don't have a sun yet ─ then light at wavelengths 390 to 700 nm or so comes into being.

How? How does magic work?

Here, plainly, a command is required. It's very like the old joke, where Yahweh says, Let there be light! and nothing happens till he says, Let there be light ─ please. Who's being commanded? Some angel in charge of the physics? Who has to get out the books, identify the problem, and its cause, and the solution, round up a field team and then actually do whatever's required?

It must be something like that, no?

Using this as an example, how do miracles get done? It's all very well to utter magic words, but someone's got to do the sums, the planning, and the legwork.

Anyone know?
let me guess ......

in the darkness of the void......to say ...I AM!
cannot happen

and to say....I AM!....
is synonymous to....Let there be light!

and the Lord said unto Moses.....
Tell the people.....I AM!
and they with understanding will know Whose law this is

(actually....I Am not guessing!)
 

Tumah

Veteran Member
Are you just imposing what we know now (i.e. that daylight comes from the Sun) on an ancient culture that didn't necessarily believe that?
No, that's the actual argument in the Talmud. Translation mine (with notes and brackets for elucidation):

And Rav Yehudah said in the name of Rav 'Ten things were created on the first day and these are they: heavens, earth, tohu, bohu, light, darkness, wind, water, the measurement of the day and the measurement of the night (ie. 12 hours each)'....

[The Talmud asks:] And was light created on the first day? But it is written, 'And G-d put them (the luminaries) in the firmament of the heavens' and it says 'and it was evening and it was morning, a fourth day'!
[The Talmud answers:] This is according to Rabi Elazar, as Rabi Elazar says, 'With the light that the Holy One blessed be He created on the first day, man could gaze from one end of the world to the other. When the Holy One blessed be He looked at the generation of the flood and the generation of separation [that were to come] and saw that their deeds were ruinous, He arose and hid it from them as it says, "He withheld from the wicked their light (Job 38:15)". And for who did He hide it? For the righteous [in the World] to Come, as it says "And G-d saw the light that it was good" and there is no good, besides the righteous (ie. good refers to righteous people) as it says, "Say to the righteous that [he is] good (Isa. 3:10)". When He saw that the light was hidden for the righteous He was glad, as it say, "the light of the righteous gladdens (Pro. 13:9)".
And [this is according to the following] Tannaic [argument]: 'The light that G-d created on the first day, man could gaze with it from one end of the world to the other', [these are the] words of Rabi Yaakov. The Sages say, 'These [the light of the first day] are these [the luminaries]. The luminaries that were created on the first day, were not hung in their place until the fourth day'​

That's the Talmudic passage. There are similar passages in Midrashic sources as well, including what appears to be an argument about whether the light was hidden on the fourth day when the luminaries were created, or at the end of the 7th day.
 

DavidFirth

Well-Known Member
Genesis 1

1 In the beginning, Yahweh created earth and sky (or, heaven).

2. The earth was shapeless, empty and dark.
Water existed.

3 Yahweh said, "Let there be light"; and there was light.
So what does 'light' mean here? Well, we're told there's mayim ─ 'water', 'urine', but the first seems more likely; and it doesn't say qerach, 'ice', 'frost', 'crystal'. For water not to be ice, there must be ambient energy, so the EM spectrum already exists.

Thus Yahweh has already created an EM spectrum, but it has at least one gap in it, the place where visible light goes.

So when Yahweh says 'owr! ─ 'light', 'daylight', 'dawn' but we don't have a sun yet ─ then light at wavelengths 390 to 700 nm or so comes into being.

How? How does magic work?

Here, plainly, a command is required. It's very like the old joke, where Yahweh says, Let there be light! and nothing happens till he says, Let there be light ─ please. Who's being commanded? Some angel in charge of the physics? Who has to get out the books, identify the problem, and its cause, and the solution, round up a field team and then actually do whatever's required?

It must be something like that, no?

Using this as an example, how do miracles get done? It's all very well to utter magic words, but someone's got to do the sums, the planning, and the legwork.

Anyone know?

All I know is that when God said it, it happened. Anything beyond that is just opinion or speculation.
 

Guy Threepwood

Mighty Pirate
Genesis 1

1 In the beginning, Yahweh created earth and sky (or, heaven).

2. The earth was shapeless, empty and dark.
Water existed.

3 Yahweh said, "Let there be light"; and there was light.
So what does 'light' mean here? Well, we're told there's mayim ─ 'water', 'urine', but the first seems more likely; and it doesn't say qerach, 'ice', 'frost', 'crystal'. For water not to be ice, there must be ambient energy, so the EM spectrum already exists.

Thus Yahweh has already created an EM spectrum, but it has at least one gap in it, the place where visible light goes.

So when Yahweh says 'owr! ─ 'light', 'daylight', 'dawn' but we don't have a sun yet ─ then light at wavelengths 390 to 700 nm or so comes into being.

How? How does magic work?

Here, plainly, a command is required. It's very like the old joke, where Yahweh says, Let there be light! and nothing happens till he says, Let there be light ─ please. Who's being commanded? Some angel in charge of the physics? Who has to get out the books, identify the problem, and its cause, and the solution, round up a field team and then actually do whatever's required?

It must be something like that, no?

Using this as an example, how do miracles get done? It's all very well to utter magic words, but someone's got to do the sums, the planning, and the legwork.

Anyone know?


This used to sound a little mystical, but we have verified that the universe was pure photons at a very early stage- yet one more lucky guess perhaps, but I think there is a less improbable explanation.

What you touch on underscores the power of creative intelligence - the only phenomena we know of that CAN create something truly novel, rather than rely on an infinite regression of automated cause and effect.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
No, that's the actual argument in the Talmud. Translation mine (with notes and brackets for elucidation):

And Rav Yehudah said in the name of Rav 'Ten things were created on the first day and these are they: heavens, earth, tohu, bohu, light, darkness, wind, water, the measurement of the day and the measurement of the night (ie. 12 hours each)'....

[The Talmud asks:] And was light created on the first day? But it is written, 'And G-d put them (the luminaries) in the firmament of the heavens' and it says 'and it was evening and it was morning, a fourth day'!
[The Talmud answers:] This is according to Rabi Elazar, as Rabi Elazar says, 'With the light that the Holy One blessed be He created on the first day, man could gaze from one end of the world to the other. When the Holy One blessed be He looked at the generation of the flood and the generation of separation [that were to come] and saw that their deeds were ruinous, He arose and hid it from them as it says, "He withheld from the wicked their light (Job 38:15)". And for who did He hide it? For the righteous [in the World] to Come, as it says "And G-d saw the light that it was good" and there is no good, besides the righteous (ie. good refers to righteous people) as it says, "Say to the righteous that [he is] good (Isa. 3:10)". When He saw that the light was hidden for the righteous He was glad, as it say, "the light of the righteous gladdens (Pro. 13:9)".
And [this is according to the following] Tannaic [argument]: 'The light that G-d created on the first day, man could gaze with it from one end of the world to the other', [these are the] words of Rabi Yaakov. The Sages say, 'These [the light of the first day] are these [the luminaries]. The luminaries that were created on the first day, were not hung in their place until the fourth day'​

That's the Talmudic passage. There are similar passages in Midrashic sources as well, including what appears to be an argument about whether the light was hidden on the fourth day when the luminaries were created, or at the end of the 7th day.
When was that passage written? I suspect some revisionism based on the knowledge of the time.

It was fairly common in ancient peoples to believe that the light from the sky in the daytime came from a source other than the Sun (the "firmament", or the solid dome of the sky, usually).

I think it makes more sense in the context of the story to take it to mean that the glow of "the firmament" was created on the first day and the Sun/moon (along with day/night cycles) were created on the fourth day.
 

Akivah

Well-Known Member
As you have pointed out, however, none of the explanations will ever give a step by step, never contain any real meat or true answers to questions posed.

The Torah is a teaching that tells us how to live our lives in a sanctified manner. What would be the point of G-d giving us a step-by-step listing of how He created the universe? Even if we could comprehend it, it isn't relevant to us.

I'm mystified why people think the bible is a science book.
 
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Tumah

Veteran Member
When was that passage written? I suspect some revisionism based on the knowledge of the time.

It was fairly common in ancient peoples to believe that the light from the sky in the daytime came from a source other than the Sun (the "firmament", or the solid dome of the sky, usually).
Talmud - Wikipedia

The Babylonian Talmud was compiled around 500 CE and redacted until around 600 CE.

I think it makes more sense in the context of the story to take it to mean that the glow of "the firmament" was created on the first day and the Sun/moon (along with day/night cycles) were created on the fourth day.
Ok.
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
The Torah is a teaching that tells us how to live our lives in a sanctified manner. What would be the point of G-d giving us a step-by-step listing of how He created the universe? Even if we could comprehend it, it isn't relevant to us.

I'm mystified why people think the bible is a science book.
Think of it this way... with the minds we were given, we were bound to come to these questions eventually. Thus, they become part of our lives. The fewer answers a supposedly all-encompassing book of "how to live life" contains, the less it is going to appeal to the people who have moved on from the more obvious questions. At that point, with no answers forthcoming, human beings will investigate, and push and pull and prod until we come to a satisfactory "answer" or some kind of impenetrable road-block. If God didn't want us poking and prodding, or asking these types of questions, then why isn't that forbidden by the rules He laid out? Does The Torah/Bible ever ONCE mention anything like that?

I suppose you'll say it all stems back to that forbidden fruit or something. But I believe it is simply because no one expected us to move much further forward technologically, morally or otherwise when The Torah/Bible was written. Like offhandedly mentioning slavery - this is another arena in which the writers took for granted that their "modern" society of the time was representative of the way things would be going forward. And there was no way for them to perceive what interesting fields of knowledge we might delve into in the future. So they would not have seen any need to ward us off of looking too deeply into the world and universe around us. God may have... but I, personally, don't believe He had a hand in writing or inspiring a single thing.

I don't expect any religious text to be a "Science book." The idea is absurd. But any/all of the texts could be a bit more comprehensive for sure. Times change... these texts haven't. It's a problem.
 
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gnostic

The Lost One
He said let there be light and there was light. Then God divided the darkness and the light. Keep in mind, God was creating Heaven and Earth. Heaven got the light, we got the darkness.

Matthew 4:16
the people living in darkness have seen a great light; on those living in the land of the shadow of death, a light has dawned."
That's sophistry at its best.
 
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