What did "Let there be light!" actually do?

[Socratic Berean]

...

• a flat earth with heaven above and water below
• a fixed earth around which all the heavenly bodies moved ('geocentry')​

and so on.

Blu - What verses are you referring to that show flat earth and geocentric models?

 

[Thief]

I reiterate.....

picture yourself as God......yes you can
and you are attempting to introduce yourself as Creator
to an 80yr old man that climbed up the mountain to meet his Maker

i think it might be difficult
explaining fusion to someone raised in the house of Pharaoh
ran from that authority having killed someone
and has been hiding among wanderers.....

the terms of creation had to be.....'watered down'

 

[gnostic]

Context is critical to proper exegesis. No question. The issue here is not as simple as you lay out, though. For every person you find claiming something along the lines you have argued (which I alluded to in my post and representing a Young Earth Creationist argument), you can find Hebraist who point to examples, within the Bible and the much larger body of Hebrew writings outside of scripture, showing otherwise.

Note, too, that the "evening-morning" construct is missing from day 7, leading some to claim we are clearly still in the 7th "day" (age), which they further support with NT claims about man being "in God's sabbath rest." Again, it's not as straight forward as we would all like.

I'm not sure where the 1,000 years comes from, but an interpretation of "age," a "long period of time," etc., in Genesis cannot be dismissed unless you discount the linguistic evidence showing otherwise. If you are really interested in understanding the complexity and nuance of the issue, the Old Earth Creationist website www.reasons.org has some good information.

Yom means any "period" of time, so it is not very specific, so it can mean short time or long time, so it could mean epoch or era.

Yom is only specific when you get context from other specific times, and in 6 of those verses, it state quite specifically "And there was evening and there was morning", which mean "day".

An evening-and-morning don't equal to a week, month, year, century, millennium or a million years. It just equal to a day.

And as to the 7th day, I really don't give a rat's a### what Genesis 2:2 say about the 7th day being the day of rest and end of creation.

But I will say that Moses would later institute the 7th day as the day of Sabbath.

If each day was 1000 or 1 million years, then it is would be really absurd that the Israelites would rest for 1000 or 1 million years.

 

[Socratic Berean]

Yom means any "period" of time, so it is not very specific, so it can mean short time or long time, so it could mean epoch or era...

Gnostic - Your penchant for argument is impressive. If you are really interested in the complexity and nuance of the issue, there is plenty of information out there penned by qualified, expert Hebraists that covers all the bases.

Meanwhile, just as food for thought, consider that there was no sun in existence for "days" one, two, and three and what that means in regards to "evening and morning." In other words, it is interesting to ponder how there was an evening or morning (as we know them, in a literal sense of dusk and dawn), or a 24-hour period of time defined by earth's rotation around the sun (a literal "day"), if there was no sun yet.

 

[gnostic]

Blu - What verses are you referring to that show flat earth and geocentric models?

The battle of Gibeon, against the Amorites, Joshua 10, where God supposedly stop the sun and moon in the sky.

The sun doesn't actually move across the sky; the Earth do move, rotating on its axis. The sun only shine on the earth's surface that's facing the sun, hence the rotation cause people living on Earth to experience night and day.

If the sun was moving, as Joshua 10 claimed, then it is geocentric model. Had Joshua 10 said that the Earth stopped spinning, then it would be heliocentric model.

 

[leibowde84]

and the question was addressed.....

both would occur.....at the same moment

But, synonymous means that the words meanings are the same. Is "I am" and "let there by light" two names for the same thing?

 

[Socratic Berean]

The battle of Gibeon, against the Amorites, Joshua 10, where God supposedly stop the sun and moon in the sky.

The sun doesn't actually move across the sky; the Earth do move, rotating on its axis. The sun only shine on the earth's surface that's facing the sun, hence the rotation cause people living on Earth to experience night and day.

If the sun was moving, as Joshua 10 claimed, then it is geocentric model. Had Joshua 10 said that the Earth stopped spinning, then it would be heliocentric model.

Point taken. I wonder, though... Today, even with our more developed understanding of the cosmos, we say "the sun rises" and "the sun sets," but that does not mean people who say such things hold a geocentric model. It is perspective-based language, no?

 

[Tumah]

It is more than just linguistic claim, it is about context.

The Hebrew transliteration of "yom" may mean unspecified period of time, BUT ONLY if you read yom without any other specific time, attach to yom.

BUT there are specific time mentioned with yom, that is - "evening and morning".

The "evening and morning" give it specific time, which clearly means "day", and not "1000 years".

You are only focusing on the possible meaning of a single word yom, and not on the context of complete sentence:



It is what I highlighted in red, that tell you what sort of yom they are. The repeated verses with "evening" and "morning" that tell you the passages' contexts are "day", not your ridiculous "thousand years" or "million years".

How do you make an evening and a morning without a sunrise and a sunset?

 

[Thief]

But, synonymous means that the words meanings are the same. Is "I am" and "let there by light" two names for the same thing?

ok....I see the gesture of thought

I AM! .....is a statement of being
Let there be light.....a statement of creation

how about?...... simultaneous

the event is sooooooo tightly related
I don't separate the two

how to have creation?....without a Creator

 

[Akivah]

Are the teachings updated? If not, then I do not consider comparison of many contemporary issues to ancient prescriptions for behavior to be entirely valid.

For example:

• What does the Torah prescribe for individuals who wish to change their gender, and can do so physiologically with technological advancements that have been made in medicine?
• What does the Torah say about spending too much time on computers, and engaging with people mostly through social media? Anything?
• What does the Torah have to say about over-fishing the oceans just to meet the otherwise "normal" daily per capita demand of an ever-growing population?
• What does the Torah have to say about fossil fuel consumption? Nuclear power?
• What does the Torah have to say about cluttering the low orbits of Earth with debris from our space-faring mechanical/electronic-devices?

Actually, I've seen Talmudic discussions on most of these. Since the Torah is written for eternity, our sages determine its application to new concepts and circumstances.

 

[Akivah]

THEN Chapter Two .....Day Eight.....and the garden event and the new testament notes Adam as a CHOSEN son of God.

Who did G-d chose from?

 

[Mrpasserby]

'How? How does magic work?'

These are good questions, the type that I have frequently asked.

In my experience: words don’t teach these things, it is only by going within and obtaining my own experiential knowledge, that satisfied the truth of it all for me.


In my experience: these are a couple of roughly worded esoteric path starters that worked for me to gain the spirits acceptance, and the obtaining of my first spirit world initiation:

(‘seek, and ye shall find’/experiential knowledge)
('knock, and it shall be opened unto you’/initiation.) Bracketed fazes paraphrased to bring out the meaning. Matthew 7:7-8


‘The Wild Hunt (spirit quest/journeying): Others, practitioners of various forms of magic, joined in it voluntarily, as an intangible part of them (a “soul,” if you like) flew with the cavalcade while their bodies lay in their beds as if sleeping normally. Bold added to emphasize certain words.

Norse mythology for smart people: The Wild Hunt - Norse Mythology for Smart People

 

[Desert Snake]

'How? How does magic work?'

These are good questions, the type that I have frequently asked.

In my experience: words don’t teach these things, it is only by going within and obtaining my own experiential knowledge, that satisfied the truth of it all for me.


In my experience: these are a couple of roughly worded esoteric path starters that worked for me to gain the spirits acceptance, and the obtaining of my first spirit world initiation:

(‘seek, and ye shall find’/experiential knowledge)

('knock, and it shall be opened unto you’/initiation.) Bracketed fazes paraphrased to bring out the meaning. Matthew 7:7-8


‘The Wild Hunt (spirit quest/journeying): Others, practitioners of various forms of magic, joined in it voluntarily, as an intangible part of them (a “soul,” if you like) flew with the cavalcade while their bodies lay in their beds as if sleeping normally. Bold added to emphasize certain words.

Norse mythology for smart people: The Wild Hunt - Norse Mythology for Smart People

Thats vague. Anything else?

 

[Mrpasserby]

'Thats vague. Anything else?'

It is standard procedure for everyone to do their own work toward their first initiation.
Pointing a seeker toward possible paths is a public form of assistance. Especially when a *mystic is posting in other than a left hand path forum.
What are you wanting to know?

*mystic-a person who seeks by contemplation and self-surrender to obtain unity with or absorption into the Deity or the absolute, or who believes in the spiritual apprehension of truths that are #beyond the intellect. #'the normal focus of the intellect'

 

[Desert Snake]

'Thats vague. Anything else?'

It is standard procedure for everyone to do their own work toward their first initiation.
Pointing a seeker toward possible paths is a public form of assistance. Especially when a *mystic is posting in other than a left hand path forum.
What are you wanting to know?

*mystic-a person who seeks by contemplation and self-surrender to obtain unity with or absorption into the Deity or the absolute, or who believes in the spiritual apprehension of truths that are #beyond the intellect. #'the normal focus of the intellect'

Hmm anything, really. I understand that you may not want to reveal which group you belong to, etc

 

[blü 2]

Socratic Berean

Blu - What verses are you referring to that show flat earth and geocentric models?​

Flat earth is implicit in the way waters are assembled (1.7, 1.9). Geocentry is evident in that the earth is made first and the stars (1.14-15) and the two lights are later (1:16) provided as amenities for the earth.

(And unsurprisingly, flat earth and geocentry are found throughout the bible, whereas I don't know of anything that indicates a round earth, let alone a solar system.)

 

[Thief]

Who did G-d chose from?

the multitude of Day Six

there are clues to indicate Man as a species.....before the garden event

like who was Cain afraid of?....when God sent him out to wander
and a mark set upon him to belay that fear

who was Cain's wife?
some believers add to scripture and claim he married his sister
I think not

and why build a city?......when so few are present

 

[DavidFirth]

DavidFirth

All I know is that when God said it, it happened. Anything beyond that is just opinion or speculation.​

It's not as simple as that. For example, WHAT light came into being at that time? For example, do you agree that most of the EM spectrum must have existed already, for the reasons I point out in the OP?

Or do you think the Genesis account is a crock?

I think Genesis is 100% accurate.

We aren't told the answers to your questions in Genesis. Do you think you could possibly understand anything from the Creator's point of view? I sincerely doubt it.

 

[Socratic Berean]

Flat earth is implicit in the way waters are assembled (1.7, 1.9).

I don't quite follow, but I'm interested in your view. Can you flesh that out a little more?

Geocentry is evident in that the earth is made first and the stars (1.14-15) and the two lights are later (1:16) provided as amenities for the earth.

I can see geoprimacy, in that the earth was created first and has a special place as home to all of biological nature, including man. That scripture attempted to describe a geocentric model through the order in which planets and stars were created is a possibility, but should we exclusively assume that an earth first created must necessarily be the center of the system? If we are assuming a God-created model, we must consider that he tells us "my ways are not your ways...my thoughts are not your thoughts." Is it not possible that an omnipotent God could create earth first and the sun and stars later and then set things in motion as we see today? Aside from a deductive approach based on the order in which bodies were created, are there other verses that more clearly point to a geocentric model?

(And unsurprisingly, flat earth and geocentry are found throughout the Bible...

This is an interesting line of thinking. What verses did you have in mind?

 

[gnostic]

Meanwhile, just as food for thought, consider that there was no sun in existence for "days" one, two, and three and what that means in regards to "evening and morning." In other words, it is interesting to ponder how there was an evening or morning (as we know them, in a literal sense of dusk and dawn), or a 24-hour period of time defined by earth's rotation around the sun (a literal "day"), if there was no sun yet.

You will have to remember that (A) I considered the Genesis to be a religious literature with mythological themes, not a book of science or astronomy.

I think it is a really mistake for any believer to think that his or her scriptures are accurate, scientifically and historically, because you (not "you" personally, but "believers" in general) are making bold, but often empty claims.

It put spotlight on the scriptures, and 9 out of 10 times, the claims are either wrong or seriously flawed.

I am not saying the scriptures are wrong, but the people interpreting are usually wrong because they trying so desperately hard to twist the scriptural passage to match either with history or with science.

And (B) what is considered science, is not by logic alone, but logic wedded with empirical and verifiable evidences.

Logic are good and fine, but it is still human-reasoning, and therefore never entirely objective and logic is certainly not infallible.

It is evidence that objectively determine if the logic is probable "true" or probable "false". The more evidences you have, the more conclusive the conclusion can be, whether the hypothesis or theory has been "refuted" or "verified".

In real science, eg experimental science as opposed to theoretical science, have to be testable, therefore the importance of observation and evidence (eg detectable, measurable, verifiable, refutable, etc). And it (science) relied on probability of the available evidences, not on dogmatic "absolute truth" (of philosophies and religions) or "absolute proof" (of theoretical physics).

Point taken. I wonder, though... Today, even with our more developed understanding of the cosmos, we say "the sun rises" and "the sun sets," but that does not mean people who say such things hold a geocentric model. It is perspective-based language, no?

Yes, SB, it is perspective-based language.

But the fact is, the sun is not traversing across the sky. It only seemed that the sun is moving, but the fact is, it is really the Earth spinning.