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Featured Was Muhammad a Messenger of God?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by adrian009, Jul 3, 2018.

?
  1. Yes

    35.1%
  2. No

    57.9%
  3. Possibly

    5.3%
  4. I don't know

    1.8%
  1. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    Muhammad claimed to be a Messenger from God and this claim is now accepted by over 1.5 billion Muslims world wide.

    The Baha'i Faith arguably the newest Abrahamic Faith emerged out of Persia, now Iran during the nineteenth century. The Founder, Baha'u'llah claimed also to bring a new Revelation from God. This was well received by many in Persia. In nineteenth century Shi'ite Islam there was an intense Messianic expectation similar to Judaism during the time of Christ. The Bab, the forerunner to Baha'u'llah was seen by tens of thousands to fulfil the Madhi prophecy in Shi'ite Islam.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahdi#Bábí_and_Bahá'í_Faiths

    Religious and governmental leaders viewed these developments with disdain and the Bab was excecuted by a militia of His own countrymen on 9th July 1850 along with many of His followers. Baha'u'llah was imprisoned and eventually exiled to Akka, the great fortress city of the Ottomon Empire. When Baha'u'llah passed away in 1892 His son Abdu'l-Baha became the leader of the Baha'i Faith. Eventually many Westerners embraced the Baha'i Faith and visited Abdu'l-Baha in Akka where he often remained a prisoner. During the early 20th century He educated the pilgrims about a wide variety of topics. During one of these talks he explained about the life of Muhammad and invited his audience to consider whether or not Muhammad was a Messenger of God. Most Westerners at the time knew little about Islam.

    A copy of Abdu'l-Baha's talk is included for anyone to read and obviously presents the life of Muhammad in a favourable light.

    http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/SAQ/saq-7.html

    Is Abdu'l-Baha's commentary reasonable? Should Muhammad be considered a Messenger of God?

    Comments and questions as you will.
     
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  2. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    There are some things I greatly admire about Muhammad, but his multiple wives, marriage to a 6 year (old at age 53 ), his military conquests, his personal practice of cutting off heads, his appearing to look like a bloodthirsty tyrant at times, and his sometimes glorious and hedonistic lifestyles, seems about as far from a "holy lifestyle" as that of the average ISIS fighter.

    I'm completely convinced that ISIS cuts off heads because Muhammad cut off heads.

    But, he still may have been a man of God and made it to heaven....that doesn't mean he was not a sinner, who made no mistakes! ;)
     
    #2 PopeADope, Jul 3, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2018
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  3. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Well-Known Member

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    Of course Muhammad was a Messenger of God. 22% of the world population are not just following "some guy." :oops::rolleyes:
    Muhammad is one of the greatest Messengers who ever lived, along with Jesus, the Bab and Baha'u'llah...
    More later, gotta run to work, I mean bike. I do not like being late, I prefer being early... :)

    Oh wait, I just remembered. ;) How do we know if someone is a Messenger of God, a Prophet?

    “What then is the mission of the divine prophets? Their mission is the education and advancement of the world of humanity. They are the real teachers and educators, the universal instructors of mankind. If we wish to discover whether any one of these great souls or messengers was in reality a prophet of God we must investigate the facts surrounding His life and history; and the first point of our investigation will be the education He bestowed upon mankind. If He has been an educator, if He has really trained a nation or people, causing it to rise from the lowest depths of ignorance to the highest station of knowledge, then we are sure that He was a prophet. This is a plain and clear method of procedure, proof that is irrefutable. We do not need to seek after other proofs.” Bahá’í World Faith, p. 273

    "if He has really trained a nation or people, causing it to rise from the lowest depths of ignorance to the highest station of knowledge, then we are sure that He was a prophet."
    I guess Muhammad must be a Prophet. :D
     
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  4. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    A lot like David.
     
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  5. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
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    The idea of "divine messengers" as understood in Abrahamic religions doesn't translate very well into my religious tradition. The Abrahamic religions seem to assume only certain special people ever receive messages from the gods (pardon, God in their case). My tradition assumes that everyone receives messages from the gods and everyone is a "messenger."

    Could someone help me understand why only certain special people would be considered conduits for God in Abrahamic traditions? Why isn't this accessible to everyone in these religions as it is in my own?
     
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  6. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    Yes I understand this.
    My Master says the same as you say:"We are all Messengers of God". Some are dormant though. And we can all go through the same stages as Jesus did. So we can all reach the highest goal in live. No need for Jesus, Mohammed, nor for my Master. "Who Am I". This "I" is what counts.

    Personally my Guru said to me "I am God" .... waited a few seconds and continued "And you are also God" ... "I know it, and you don't realize it yet. The purpose of life is to realize that you are God".

    Why Abrahamic traditions say different? It all has to do with power and control of the masses IMHO. I mean, billions of dollars are at stake there in Rome. Recently I saw a youtube about Islam where they mentioned that money is never a problem in Islam.

    But Money and Power and Control is not only for Religions. That is how the world is run (sadly). But you, being a Druid had all this figured out yourself also I think;). This won't change easily, because about 5 billion people believe that they should give their power away to something external.

    At least I like "the view that we don't need an external source to reach the goal". If you give your power away, easily you let yourself be abused. Even stimulating it. "Give them 1 finger and they take your hand, is a proverb that makes sense here".
     
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  7. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    2400 million = 33% is a big number, so Jesus might have been a messenger
    1800 million = 22% is a big number, so Mohammed might have been a Messenger
    1200 million = 15% is a big number, so Atheism+++ is doing fine also [good Messengers]
    1200 million = 15% is a big number, so Hinduism might have had good Messengers
    0008 million = 0,1% is a very small number, so Bahaullah is not a Messenger then?

    If Bahaullah is also a Messenger, then my Guru can be a Messenger as well
    0080 million = 01% is a small number [But 10 times Bahai]
    And My Guru did indeed set up free education in India, and Free Super Speciality Hospitals and Free Drinking water projects

    I rather believe that we are all messengers of God. And we need no external "something" to reach our Goal. The Power is within.
    But I do agree it is easier to have someone do the heavy "lifting" for us. And finding out what and how to "lift"
    But it's also kind of fun and challenging to find out all ourselves.

    And if humans can let go "numbers" (mine bigger than yours), I think we have much more "peace" on earth
     
    #7 stvdv, Jul 3, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2018
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  8. Kelly of the Phoenix

    Kelly of the Phoenix Well-Known Member

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    I have as much evidence he was one that I have for anyone else.

    Wow, that really narrows down the field a bit. It also makes many people not considered prophets messengers, even if they aren't religious.

    Yeah, the bible is filled with heroes who were actually jerks at best. However, Greeks also had a similar definition of heroes: they just had to be epic, not good.

    While I come from Abrahamic traditions, it is the conclusion I've come to as well. The whole "special messenger" thing just reeks of "self-serving tripe".
     
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  9. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I will skip the commentary for now. I believe Muhammed is a messenger of God because the words have a godly ring to them. I believe once a person becomes accustomed to the way God speaks then he will perceive it is God speaking. In addition the Holy Spirit confirms the Qu'ran as the word of God.
     
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  10. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe that people do not usually go to Heaven but are reincarnated (maybe as the Baha'u'llah, lol.
     
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  11. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe an argument based on numbers is not valid. Millions of Catholics believe in the Papacy but that doesn't validate it. I don't believe anyone follows Muhammad directly but do through the Qu'ran indirectly.

    I believe I am not sure how great he is but by writing the Qu'ran he has influenced a large number of people.
     
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  12. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta and Spiritualist and Pantheist
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    I'll go with 'Yes' as I believe he did receive revelation from the angel Gabriel.
     
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  13. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    Leonard cohen said everything has a crack in it that's how the light gets in.
     
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  14. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    Personally, I have no doubt that Muhammad was no messenger from God.

    Or, at least, he was no messenger from any God that I would want to consider treating as a real and worthy reference. From all appearances, Muhammad's conception of divinity was not very healthy and not very advisable.

    If there is a God with a valid message and that God somewhat resembles the expectations of Ibrahim, it is self-evident that its message is expressed better, often and widely by people far less famous than Muhammad and the other prophets acknowledged by Islaam.

    The messages of the Qur'an and of Islaam are simply not nearly enlightened enough to fulfill my expectations for support of such a bold claim.

    To the extent that I spend some time thinking or talking about the Qur'an and Islaam, it is out of consideration for Muslims, not for the Qur'an, Muhammad or Allah.
     
    #14 LuisDantas, Jul 3, 2018
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  15. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    As said by another the biblical figure Muhammad most reminds me of is King David. Beyond that Moses. King David had eight wives but unlike Muhammad had concubines too. King David was a warrior King who presided over a united Israel. Muhammad managed to unite a disparate group of Arabic tribes. The various clans were barbaric and one group prided themselves on burying female babies alive. They were pagans and Muhammad convinced them to be like the Jews and Christians and worship One God. How much of the head chopping really happened is anyone’s guess as there’s hype from both Muslims and Christians. We don’t know how old A’isha was but she went on to become one of the outstanding women in Islam.
     
  16. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    Always well said Luis!:thumbsup:
     
  17. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    I used to practice meditation for the purpose of achieving Nirvana and study the Dharmic Faiths so appreciate somewhat where you’re coming from. The Abrahamic Faiths have a galaxy of adherents that have distinguished themselves in innumerable ways and have all been inspired by God to some extent. It is a question of degrees though and I can see how the explanation that some are chosen through the will of God doesn’t satisfy many. OTOH I’m not expecting to become the next Jesus anytime soon and would be surprised if anyone else will either. All the best trying to get to wherever you think you’re going.
     
  18. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    Every faith including Hinduism and Buddhism appears bound by the historic and social conditions from which they emerged as far as I can see. Tribalism based on competing and warring factions is still relatively recent history so it should be within our grasp to make sense of. I look more for the universal truths that emerge from any faith. Such wisdom is readily apparent in the Dharmic Faiths and it seems a great loss not to appreciate that in the Abrahamic Faiths as well. It’s good you keep the lines of communication open with Muslims though.
     
  19. Samantha Rinne

    Samantha Rinne Active Member

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    Uhhhh okay. Sounds legit.

    Science and Islam in Conflict

    Science owes much to both Christianity and the Middle Ages
     
  20. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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