Wars or Pornography.... which to eliminate if you could only get rid of one??

[ChristineM]

Oh, well, Google! How can I possibly argue with that!

The reason the examples you posted are not pornography is because they are intended to be idealizations of the human body as expressions of physical beauty, not as an objects for sexual use. Did you look up Balthus' paintings? It might help to illuminate the difference.

Google is a source of knowledge if used properly, sorry you are not interested in such knowledge and dismiss it out of hand.

Each of those works has in the past been deemed pornographic. A copy of the statue of david has been considered pornographic as late ar 2020. Although this is denied by those who covered his nakedness

I know of Balthus, i personally don't consider his work pornographic. You eant pornographic art try Paolo Serpieri

 

[ChristineM]

It's all under the same umbrella of human beings exploiting and abusing other humans beings for profit. If you can down-play it to serve your agenda, I can up-play it to serve mine.

Business is a bugger isn't it?

 

[Sedim Haba]

Depends, when I was in high school a bunch of kids actually made a teacher cry by throwing a pie in her face.

That probably wasn't a pre-arranged pie fight, but an ambush.

Spontaneous group pies can also be fun.... Stooges had some doozies!

 

[Father Heathen]

If you can get rid of war without getting rid of love of superficial world and apathy, I wouldn't even care for porn. But reality, is one evil compliments another. Justice is impossible when people succumb to their desires. It breaks fabric of society when honor is destroyed - justice becomes impossible to implement when honor is not

Sex and nudity aren't evil.

 

[Father Heathen]

Do you believe that sex sacred, & is that your
fundamental reason to oppose all sex work?

In some cultures, sex work itself was sacred: Sacred prostitution - Wikipedia

 

[Father Heathen]

"Voluntary" is irrelevant. I could "volunteer" to sell you my right arm so you could mount it on your wall, but that doesn't make it something society should accept.

Consent, choice, and agency are very relevant.

 

[PureX]

Consent, choice, and agency are very relevant.

No, what is relevant is that these can be and often are forced, and coerced, and destructive of the individual and society, making them invalid.

 

[Father Heathen]

No, what is relevant is that these can be and often are forced, and coerced, and destructive of the individual and society, making them invalid.

If something is forced or coerced then it isn't consentual.

 

[Twilight Hue]

On another thread in a distant section far far away, on a theist's 'ask me' OP I asked the above question. ....:-
If you could only eliminate one of these, 'All Wars or All Pornography', which would you eliminate?

That member replied 'Pornography'.

For what its worth to you my answer is 'All Wars' because I'm not much bothered by 'All Pornography'.

So which would you eliminate of those two?

It's hard to look tough if your naked.

 

[PureX]

If something is forced or coerced then it isn't consentual.

But when it comes to sex and money, force and coercion are very common, and those engaged in it will claim consent, by whatever means, justifies their behavior. Our legal system cannot handle the volume of Iitigatipn required to sort it all out fairly. And the advantages of prostitution and porn to society are minimal at best. It's just not worth all the suffering and abuse it causes when left unchecked.

 

[Revoltingest]

But when it comes to sex and money, force and coercion are very common, and those engaged in it will claim consent, by whatever means, justifies their behavior.

That's pretty much what you claim about all business.
How does sex work differ?
And what do you propose to do about it....make it illegal,
& put more providers & customers in prison?

 

[PureX]

That's pretty much what you claim about all business.
How does sex work differ?
And what do you propose to do about it....make it illegal,
& put more providers & customers in prison?

The whole point of creating governments and making and enforcing laws is to minimize man's inhumanity to man. To protect us from each other, and sometimes even from ourselves. The fact that people WANT to use and abuse each other does't justify allowing it. Not in the name of freedom, and not in the name of commercial profit. Like it or not, we humans cannot be trusted to respect each other's autonomy and well being. Most of us will, but there will always be those that won't. And they have to be forcibly reigned in.

 

[Revoltingest]

The whole point of creating governments and making and enforcing laws is to minimize man's inhumanity to man. To protect us from each other, and sometimes even from ourselves. The fact that people WANT to use and abuse each other does't justify allowing it. Not in the name of freedom, and not in the name of commercial profit. Like it or not, we humans cannot be trusted to respect each other's autonomy and well being. Most of us will, but there will always be those that won't. And they have to be forcibly reigned in.

You're still not justifying your special restrictions upon
sex work vs other work. Is this about sexual prudery?

 

[Stevicus]

But when it comes to sex and money, force and coercion are very common, and those engaged in it will claim consent, by whatever means, justifies their behavior. Our legal system cannot handle the volume of Iitigatipn required to sort it all out fairly. And the advantages of prostitution and porn to society are minimal at best. It's just not worth all the suffering and abuse it causes when left unchecked.

One of the problems with outlawing vices is that it puts it in the realm of organized crime. It's just like with Prohibition of alcohol. People are going to do it anyway, but by outlawing it, it intensifies the problem far greater than it otherwise would be.

 

[metis]

So which would you eliminate of those two?

Both are nasty, but definitely wars are worse.

 

[Revoltingest]

Both are nasty, but definitely wars are worse.

If porn is nasty to you then there are 2 possible reasons....
1) You're watching the wrong kind.
2) You're watching the right kind....you perverted freak!

 

[PureX]

You're still not justifying your special restrictions upon
sex work vs other work.

It's especially dehumanizing and humiliating to treat human beings like sex toys. And these are not motives and behaviors that are healthy for any society to condone or perpetuate. It's not "prudery", it's just prudent. And the fact that you can't see this is proof of the damage done by it. It encourages us to be ignorant and selfish like dumb animals even in the most intimate of ways.

 

[Revoltingest]

It's especially dehumanizing and humiliating to treat human beings like sex toys. And these are not motives and behaviors that are healthy for any society to condone or perpetuate. It's not "prudery", it's just prudent. And the fact that you can't see this is proof of the damage done by it. It encourages us to be ignorant and selfish like dumb animals even in the most intimate of ways.

Dehumanizing & humiliating is your feeling.
Not all feel as you do. What gives you the right
to prohibit them from doing what they want?
Puritans can make choices for themselves,
but not for others (IMO).

 

[PureX]

One of the problems with outlawing vices is that it puts it in the realm of organized crime. It's just like with Prohibition of alcohol. People are going to do it anyway, but by outlawing it, it intensifies the problem far greater than it otherwise would be.

People are going to commit rape and murder, too. But I doubt that you would suggest we eliminate the laws banning them. So that argument just doesn't work. And just passing laws is never really enough. We also have to teach succeeding generations WHY those laws exist, and why they need to be upheld. The use of alcohol was far to entrenched in our culture to be reversed by laws alone, or in any short amount of time. And the damage from allowing it had long since been deemed acceptable to a majority of people. Too difficult to circumvent. But this is not so with porn or prostitution.

 

[PureX]

Dehumanizing & humiliating is your feeling.

It's nearly everyone's feeling. No one wants their loved ones engaging in porn or prostitution because they know it's demeaning and humiliating and that it does harm to the minds and hearts of those who engage in it.