Wars or Pornography.... which to eliminate if you could only get rid of one??

[Revoltingest]

It's especially dehumanizing and humiliating to treat human beings like sex toys. And these are not motives and behaviors that are healthy for any society to condone or perpetuate. It's not "prudery", it's just prudent. And the fact that you can't see this is proof of the damage done by it. It encourages us to be ignorant and selfish like dumb animals even in the most intimate of ways.

To you they're mere inanimate sex toys.
To others they real people...really hot people.
It might encourage you to be ignorant, but for
others it's just good clean (to you "dirty") fun.

 

[Kooky]

It's especially dehumanizing and humiliating to treat human beings like sex toys. And these are not motives and behaviors that are healthy for any society to condone or perpetuate. It's not "prudery", it's just prudent. And the fact that you can't see this is proof of the damage done by it. It encourages us to be ignorant and selfish like dumb animals even in the most intimate of ways.

How would you go about eliminating sexual objectification in Western society? Please be specific.

 

[Stevicus]

People are going to commit rape and murder, too. But I doubt that you would suggest we eliminate the laws banning them. So that argument just doesn't work. And just passing laws is never really enough. We also have to teach succeeding generations WHY those laws exist, and why they need to be upheld. The use of alcohol was far to entrenched in our culture to be reversed by laws alone, or in any short amount of time. And the damage from allowing it had long since been deemed acceptable to a majority of people. Too difficult to circumvent. But this is not so with porn or prostitution.

I daresay that humans have been having sex far longer than drinking alcohol, so sex is even more entrenched in our culture. Prostitution is called "the world's oldest profession" for a reason.

If the issue you're addressing is cultural and that we have to teach succeeding generations, then the issue of sex itself has to be examined. Our society draws an arbitrary line between what might considered "X-rated" versus "R-rated," as opposed to "G" and "PG." If we, as a society, are trying to teach something, then the curriculum would have to be more coherent.

 

[PureX]

I expect that many pro porn actors enjoy their work.

I expect that many drug addicts enjoy their drugs. And many domestic abusers enjoy abusing their own families, and some even enjoy being the victim of it. But none of this make it a good thing for society to accept and condone. "I like it" doesn't justify it. "I want it" doesn't justify it. And the fact that so many people think it should is part of the damage that condoning such selfishness and abuse does.

I don't think you know what you're talking about. Where anybody is enslaved in to any thing, then that's criminal.

There are all kinds of "enslavement". Not the least of which is the enslavement of one's own ignorance.

Most of the people involved in porn and prostitution were sexually abused as children. This taught them that their bodies were object that others wanted to use for their own pleasure, and because no one stepped in, it also taught them that this is just the way life is. As a result, they think selling their bodies for the selfish sexual use of others is just how life is, and the fact that they can get paid for it makes them think they are finally 'getting over' on the abusers. When in fact they are just furthering the abuse. Like I said, ignorance is the most common form of slavery.

 

[PureX]

How would you go about eliminating sexual objectification in Western society? Please be specific.

Make the most glaring examples of it, like porn for money, and sex for money, illegal. Teach each other, and our children WHY objectifying other people, for whatever purpose, is dehumanizing. Most people already know it's wrong. But our culture has been overrun by the greedsters among us who will do and say anything for money. And they are slowly destroying our culture morally and ethically. The real "culture war" in this country is with them. With the 'anything goes for a profit' people and their endless mantra of, "if you want it, you should have it" (so long as you can pay us for it). They poison everything they touch as everything becomes just another commodity for them to sell. Even human bodies, hearts, and minds.

 

[PureX]

To you they're mere inanimate sex toys.
To others they real people...really hot people.
It might encourage you to be ignorant, but for
others it's just good clean (to you "dirty") fun.

PHFFFT!

 

[PureX]

I daresay that humans have been having sex far longer ...

It's not about "having sex". It's about selling human bodies for money, to be used for the selfish sexual gratification of others. And most cultures throughout history have understood that this is a damaging practice for them to allow. Yes, it has always happened. But it was not a generally accepted practice, because people knew it was not a healthy way for humans to behave. And the fact that you don;t see the difference is evidence of the damage it does to a cultural mind.

If the issue you're addressing is cultural and that we have to teach succeeding generations, then the issue of sex itself has to be examined. Our society draws an arbitrary line between what might considered "X-rated" versus "R-rated," as opposed to "G" and "PG." If we, as a society, are trying to teach something, then the curriculum would have to be more coherent.

The problem is that those lines are being drawn based on the wrong premise. They should be drawn based on the ethical ideals involved, not the visual content. But that would force us to confront the real damage done by greed run amok in our culture, and we aren't (those in power aren't) willing to look at that.

 

[Revoltingest]

PHFFFT!

Passionately holding furries firmly for tickling?

Be sure to have their permission.

 

[oldbadger]

It's not about "having sex". It's about selling human bodies for money, to be used for the selfish sexual gratification of others. And most cultures throughout history have understood that this is a damaging practice for them to allow. Yes, it has always happened. But it was not a generally accepted practice, because people knew it was not a healthy way for humans to behave. And the fact that you don;t see the difference is evidence of the damage it does to a cultural mind.
The problem is that those lines are being drawn based on the wrong premise. They should be drawn based on the ethical ideals involved, not the visual content. But that would force us to confront the real damage done by greed run amok in our culture, and we aren't (those in power aren't) willing to look at that.

I didn't write a word of anything that you posted.

 

[Stevicus]

It's not about "having sex". It's about selling human bodies for money, to be used for the selfish sexual gratification of others. And most cultures throughout history have understood that this is a damaging practice for them to allow. Yes, it has always happened. But it was not a generally accepted practice, because people knew it was not a healthy way for humans to behave. And the fact that you don;t see the difference is evidence of the damage it does to a cultural mind.

I guess some of it might depend on how "transactional" these relationships might be. I've heard some people argue that marriage itself is a transactional relationship, not necessarily based in love or romance. Nature gives humans the desire to have sex and procreate, and human societies have adapted it into their cultures. Traditionally, men would provide protection and provisioning, whereas the women would carry the children and care for them until they're old enough to take care of themselves.

Prostitution seems more a twisted variation of the same basic theme. Men get their sexual desires fulfilled, and women get provisioning in return. In small numbers, it's something that cultures can absorb and tolerate to a degree, but you probably couldn't build an entire society on it.

The problem is that those lines are being drawn based on the wrong premise. They should be drawn based on the ethical ideals involved, not the visual content. But that would force us to confront the real damage done by greed run amok in our culture, and we aren't (those in power aren't) willing to look at that.

Yes, I can agree with this, but ultimately, it does come to society's views on sex and the process of "having sex," even if, as you say, the topic isn't really about that. One might argue that sex can be a beautiful and wonderful thing between two or more people who love each other deeply, but to make it transactional and tainted by money somehow spoils it and makes it more degrading. But I would ask, what's the core problem here? Sex or money?

If the issue is sex, then, in the context of teaching future generations, society should teach them to be respectful of other people's rights and a more mature, enlightened view on sex and relationships. It seems that society went awfully fast from a more puritanical view of "sex is dirty" to the sexual revolution and a kind of "anything goes" popular culture which is practically everywhere these days. It goes up and down the spectrum. No wonder so many people are confused.

If the issue is money and capitalism, I think most people here know my views on capitalism - and I think you and I see eye-to-eye on that topic, for the most part. The sex industry is extremely capitalistic and often associated with organized crime. So, I haven't forgotten that part, but there may be sex workers who are independent and own the means of production, so to speak. If the worker has control over the means of production, then the worker has choice, freedom, and agency. If the capitalists control the means of production, then the worker is exploited.

 

[Stevicus]

I didn't write a word of anything that you posted.

He was quoting from my post, but for some reason, your name showed up in the quote box.

 

[oldbadger]

He was quoting from my post, but for some reason, your name showed up in the quote box.

Ah.....got it.

 

[Sand Dancer]

On another thread in a distant section far far away, on a theist's 'ask me' OP I asked the above question. ....:-
If you could only eliminate one of these, 'All Wars or All Pornography', which would you eliminate?

That member replied 'Pornography'.

For what its worth to you my answer is 'All Wars' because I'm not much bothered by 'All Pornography'.

So which would you eliminate of those two?

I thought this would be a no-brainer...

 

[Sand Dancer]

"Let loose the dogs of porn" doesn't have quite the same ring to it.

Now I imagine dogs chasing people in order to hump their legs.

 

[Sand Dancer]

The ancient celts fought their battles in the nude.

Sword fights must have been interesting.

 

[Revoltingest]

Now I imagine dogs chasing people in order to hump their legs.

Someone once gave me one of these as a present.
We wore him completely out.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Someone once gave me one of these as a present.
We wore him completely out.

That's disturbingly funny.

 

[Revoltingest]

That's disturbingly funny.

Just attach him to someone's ankle.
He is hilarious.

 

[oldbadger]

I thought this would be a no-brainer...

Me too.
A real shocker.

 

[oldbadger]

Sword fights must have been interesting.

Picts and Celts? They probably just chucked their rocks about.