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Featured Thoughts on Heaven, Hell, and the Christian/Islamic God

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Hubert Farnsworth, May 21, 2018.

  1. Musing Bassist

    Musing Bassist Aesthetic Traditionalist

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    Not exactly.

    http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P29.HTM

    For one I am grateful for my existence which I recognize as being utterly dependent upon God. Further I recognize that as almighty creator, God has the right to demand the obedience and worship due to him from his creatures. Justice demands the rights of all beings to be honoured. God too, has rights. Principally the right to have his godhead recognized by all. It follows then that far from being deranged, God acts well within his rights to punish those who deny him of what he is entitled to. God would be unjust to himself to not do so.

    Put into the perspective of eternity, God demands very little from us. For an eternity of endless and unsurpassable happiness; one human lifetime (if that) of faith and obedience.

    This is nothing but your own projection. I don't see it like you do. You can dismiss it as cowardice, but I can dismiss your views as the same. An attempt to rationalize one's willful rejection of God and the moral reality thereof. I don't say this to be accusatory, merely to show that such a game can be played both ways.
     
    #21 Musing Bassist, May 23, 2018
    Last edited: May 23, 2018
  2. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    In studying Islam for a long time I understand how at least theologically things seem concrete, but in Islam God is said to be the most merciful and compassionate. Any Muslim would be wrong to say such and such is going to hell. When it comes to the afterlife no human can tell you who and what is ultimately going to happen. Most Muslims will say (or ought to say) Allaahu A'lam which means God knows best.
     
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  3. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    It is a wrong notion about the Islamic G-d. The Islamic G-d is most Beneficent and Most Merciful.
    Regards
     
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  4. Enlil

    Enlil Allah's servant

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    On the contrary, some Muslims believe that Jews, Christians and 'Sabians' (Mandaeans) who believe in God and the Day of Judgment (and do good deeds) will like Muslims go to Heaven.

    I certainly don't believe in eternal torture for the majority of people, although I do believe that many people will end up in Hell and spend a long time there.

    On the contrary, we love God above all else. Moreover, it is because we love our unbelieving loved ones that we do all that we can to encourage them to become believers like us and feel deeply sad if they choose not to (which is their right).
     
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  5. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member

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    What someone may believe doesn';t make it true. I suggest you find the truth for yourself.

    Contrary to popular opinion, God doesn't eternally torture anyone.

    A God of mercy cannot do this. God will have a universe where sin and sinners don't exist, not a creation where they exist in some heavenly gulag tortured forever.

    As a result of their choice, they will simply cease to exist, the act that they did exist will be the most microscopic bump on the perfectly smooth road of eternity.

    Facts are facts, what others, even the majority, believe is irrelevant.

    So, don't rail about what others believe, some others believe there are vampires, or a huge UFO base at the center of the earth, who cares ?

    If your purpose is to attack the beliefs of others, go for it. If your purpose is to know the truth of what happens to the lost by their choice, read the Bible, don't just take others word for it.
     
  6. David1967

    David1967 Well-Known Member
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    They are both Abrahamic religions. The God that Jesus, Moses, Abraham , and Mohammed prayed to was one and the same, though interpreted differently according to culture and tradition.
     
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  7. Al Ibn Al Amra

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    You only not .
     
  8. David1967

    David1967 Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

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    ?
     
  9. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Please keep in mind that the English word hell used at Matthew 10:28 is translated from the word Gehenna.
    So, we need to know the meaning of the word Gehenna.
    In brief, I find Gehenna was a garbage pit where things were: destroyed forever.
    So, both body and soul can be ' destroyed ' (Not in biblical hell -Acts of the Apostles 2:27) in Gehenna.
    If Gehenna was biblical hell, then dead Jesus could have been destroyed while in biblical hell - Acts 2:27
    Even gospel writer Luke wrote at Acts of the Apostles 3:23 that the soul can be destroyed.
    I find that is in harmony with Psalms 92:7 that the wicked are destroyed forever.
    The wicked are Not considered as being in biblical hell because everyone in biblical hell is ' delivered up' ( meaning resurrected out of hell ) according to Revelation 20:13-14. Emptied-out hell is then cast vacant into that symbolic ' second death ' for vacated hell.
     
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  10. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Yes,I find both death and hades (KJV hell ) are cast into that symbolic lake of fire.
    The definition of the lake of fire according to Revelation 20:13-14 is ' second death '.
    Emptied-out hell ( Not empted-out Gehenna ) is cast vacant into second death.
    Gehenna is the word often translated as: hell fire.
    Hades/sheol is translated as hell ( without the fire ) at Acts of the Apostles 2:27.
    In other words, dead Jesus was never in Gehenna, but in biblical hell until his God resurrected Jesus out of hell.
     
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  11. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I think because of the bad track record found in Christendom is why one could conclude Not true love for God.
    Christendom is just 'so-called Christianity' which does Not follow the 1st century scriptural teachings of Christ.
    Just as Jesus told us at Matthew 7:21-23 that MANY would come ' in his name ' but prove false.
    So, that does Not make genuine Christians as obsession, but makes the false Christians as uncaring.
    How one can distinguish the genuine ' wheat ' Christians from the fake ' weed/tares' Christians is by their having the same self-sacrificing love for others as Jesus instructed at John 13:34-35.
     
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  12. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I think that Jesus as prophet would agree with you that 'God knows best'.
    As prophet I find Jesus did Not teach ' afterlife ' but taught ' resurrection '.
    Afterlife indicates being more alive after death than before death.
    Jesus taught ' sleep' in death - John 11:11-14. So does OT Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4; Ecclesiastes 9:5.
    By Jesus resurrecting people back to healthy physical life on Earth shows what is ultimately going to happen.
    Jesus was giving us a preview, a coming attraction, of what he will be doing on a grand-global scale.
    During Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rule over Earth there will be healthy physical resurrections.
    That is why Acts of the Apostles 24:15 uses the ' future tense ' that there ' is going to be ' a resurrection.....
    The prophet Daniel looked forward to being awakened from death's deep sleep at Daniel 12:2; Daniel 12:13.
     
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  13. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Have you ever considered how much time dead Jesus spent in hell _______ Acts of the Apostles 2:27.
    Since the wicked (Psalms 92:7) are to be ' destroyed forever ' then there can't be any eternal torture but annihilation.
    I find there is more than one 'Day of Judgement ' coming.
    We are nearing the soon coming ' time of separation ' on Earth as mentioned at Matthew 25:31-33,37,40.
    The figurative humble ' sheep ' are given a favorable judgement as being the righteous ones at Matthew 25:37.
    The figurative haughty ' goats ' are given an adverse judgement, and are like the wicked of Psalms 92:7.

    Then, Jesus' millennium-long day of governing over Earth is also a coming ' Day of Judgement ' when resurrected ones ( most of whom never even heard of Jesus ) will have the opportunity to learn abut Jesus' ransom (Matthew 20:28) and choose whether to follow Jesus at that millennial time frame.
     
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  14. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    I believe Jesus did not spend even a single day in hell. He did suffer trials and tribulations, yes.
    Regards
     
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  15. Enlil

    Enlil Allah's servant

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    Since I don't view the Bible as an authoritative source of information on Jesus' life or the way the world is or will be in time to come, these verses hold no significance for me.
     
  16. A.C. Simon

    A.C. Simon Member

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    Well, coming from the Christian perspective, it seems to me you don’t understand who God really is in the bible. God is pure, innocent, and blameless. But He also is a righteous, holy, just Judge and King of the universe who has to judge sin or else He would no longer be God, and since it is impossible for God to change His character and who He is; He has to punish us for breaking His laws just like a judge in this world would punish someone who broke the law. But that’s where the love of God comes in. God so loved us, not willing that any should perish, sent His only Son to die on a cross so that His blood would pay the price for our sins and redeem us back to God when we repent of our sins, turn away from our sins and follow and put our trust in Jesus Christ, because God raised Him up the third day to be seated on His right hand and be King of the universe. And if you want proof of the life of Jesus, and His death and resurrection look at the minimal facts argument, and not only that, but archaeological, scientific, historic, and supernatural evidence for Jesus Christ.
     
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  17. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Well-Known Member

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    That is the main problem. :rolleyes::oops:
     
  18. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    Well your wrong on that one.
    The Christian God does not torture people for eternity.
    This is why exactly people like yourself, have no knowledge or understanding about the bible
    Let's see in the bible it does say, that God will destroy both the body and soul in hell

    So seeing that God shall destroy the body and soul in hell, So how is God going to torture people for eternity, seeing both the body and soul are destroyed in hell, That means their gone, to exist no more.
     
  19. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Well-Known Member

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    But that is not what actually happens. The body dies on earth and is buried in the ground, but the soul of every human being continues on to the spiritual world, whether they believed in God and Jesus or whether they were an atheist. The soul will take on a new form in the spiritual world, one that best suits their spiritual attainment.

    Heaven and hell are not geographical locations, they are states of being...
    Souls that were close to God and did good works on earth will be in a state of heaven, whereas souls who were far from God, selfish souls who committed evil deeds, will be in a state of hell.

    However, every soul will be able to make progress, by the mercy of God and the prayers of others, not by free will. That is why it is so important to use our free will on earth, while we still can.

    “And now concerning thy question regarding the soul of man and its survival after death. Know thou of a truth that the soul, after its separation from the body, will continue to progress until it attaineth the presence of God, in a state and condition which neither the revolution of ages and centuries, nor the changes and chances of this world, can alter. It will endure as long as the Kingdom of God, His sovereignty, His dominion and power will endure. It will manifest the signs of God and His attributes, and will reveal His loving kindness and bounty.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 155-156
     
  20. 1213

    1213 Active Member

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    Sorry, I think that is not true, by what the Bible teaches. Jesus was in grave or hades, not in hell.
     
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