The wall costs the government $10 more than a large pizza.

[Milton Platt]

I live in a relatively crime free area but ever since my garage was broken into and my expensive power tools were stolen I keep a locked gate across the drive.

My insurance company want to know where I keep my vehicles overnight and because they are in effect in a locked compound, my premiums are reduced.

This makes sense to me and I can’t see why the same principle cannot apply to a country.

Most people with a lot more money/property than I have spend a lot more than I do on home security.

I know that some of these wealthy types including celebrities have even had public footpaths rerouted so that the unwanted are kept off their land. Quite often, these same people campaign for open borders.

I fail to see how a border fence will keep your power tools safe.

 

[Milton Platt]

If we built the wall and rectified visa overstays, we'd save at least 150 billion each year after the initial outlay. So, how many poor people can you help with that?

You are making some sense, there. I am not particularly in favor of taking private land by emminant domain to build walls, but if the entire problem is addressed instead of just the smallest part of the problem, it would go a long way to being more paletable. Visa overstays are the biggest issue, so start with that.

 

[Nakosis]

People often think they're not affected by illegal immigration, but unless you're truly a member of the elite class of people who needs no resource directly from the government it generally has an influence on everyone.

You pay more taxes toward law enforcement, welfare, education, welfare, and infrastructure. It's not like there is some vacuum where every single dollar wasted on a non-citizen doesn't have a direct influence on your quality of life. It does, even if you don't know what you're missing. When things go bad for a citizen they're competing for the same resources that the illegals are using as subsistence money. That's the problem, it's literally thieving cash from our poorer citizens -- we don't need to be geniuses to figure out that the poor are really the only people you can take this money from. So, I guess, in a nutshell, that is what bothers me. It's not the silly drug wars, the anecdotal violent crime, or whatever. It's a real on-going problem, and the people that are really paying for the mistake of not securing the border are the ones least able to handle the loss. (Largely, because they're the only ones the politicians can shaft, since they also conversely donate the least money to campaigns and so on.)

There is a lot of opportunity cost -- young people aren't able to compete for starting jobs due to near-slave labor being available either. So, not only are the poor being stolen from, but their chance to not be poor at all is greatly diminished. It's impossible to "hold wages up" and import more people, basic economics and supply and demand apply to the working population as well. If there is a great influx of foreign workers (legal or not) there is a tendency for wages to fall sharply. Thus, the standard of living, in general degrades with it.

Issue I see is Calif education and health. Impossibly large classroom size and impossibly long waits at the emergency rooms. The result is poorer education and poorer health care for all. Along with the highest taxation in the nation in an attempt to cover all of these costs.

Generally if I'm not going to the emergency rooms and not using public education the thing affecting me is the tax burden.

 

[Mindmaster]

Issue I see is Calif education and health. Impossibly large classroom size and impossibly long waits at the emergency rooms. The result is poorer education and poorer health care for all. Along with the highest taxation in the nation in an attempt to cover all of these costs.

Generally if I'm not going to the emergency rooms and not using public education the thing affecting me is the tax burden.

Well, whether you're using or not using you're still paying.

But, we'd definitely pay less with less people.

 

[Notanumber]

I fail to see how a border fence will keep your power tools safe.

It is a second line of defence and it has worked so far.

Wealthier people than me have better property defences than I have and maybe this is why they do not feel the need for national border defences.

Spoiler: Warning: contains swear words.

 

[Curious George]

"President Trump is asking for $5.7 Billion, out of an annual budget of $4.407 Trillion.

In other words, Trump wants 57 bucks, out of an annual budget of $44,070.

Think about that. Imagine your spouse saying, "We're not going back to work, the kids aren't getting their allowances, and no bills are getting paid until you give up the idea of spending 57 bucks to fence in our yard."

This is what Pelosi and Schumer have halted our government for."

source: Red White Blue News


Essentially, this is the level of absurdity to the Democrat position. They're literally arguing over one large pizza or so... (For us normal folks...) So, everyone has to suffer for that. Does that seem justified?

Anyway, I think such comparisons are important to understand what a pittance the total amount is. How does this make you feel about the positions various politicians are taking on this matter?

I don't particularly find that Democrat voters themselves are largely against border security or reasonably priced wall. (It seems price is the largest concern for Dems... Not whether we need to have one, or the people to keep it running.)

P.S. Also, what happened to the Secure Fence Act 50 billion? H.R.6061 - 109th Congress (2005-2006): Secure Fence Act of 2006 Does anyone know? That's a helluva lot of fence.

Let us explore that analogy. Congress controls the purse strings; congress makes the laws.

It is Trump's job to execute those laws. Trump has decided he wants a $57.00 pizza for his birthday party, and his parents have told him he can have pizza but not the $57.00 pizza he wants. Now, Trump has said he won't agree to any birthday party unless he gets his favorite Yummy Yum's pizza. Now you can hardly have a birthday party without the birthday boy, but should the parents just get the a Yummy Yum's pizza knowing that 1) they do not want to spend that amount and 2) the majority of the guests won't like it?


That is your pizza analogy. But somehow, you are blaming the parents for holding the birthday party hostage.

 

[Milton Platt]

It is a second line of defence and it has worked so far.

Wealthier people than me have better property defences than I have and maybe this is why they do not feel the need for national border defences.

Spoiler: Warning: contains swear words.

for your fence to equal the border fence, you need to install roughly 328 points of entry, most of which are open 24/7. And build thousands of airports inside of it. And it must only cover a tiny part of the perimeter of your property.

It isn’t only wealthy people who don’t want the fence. It’s those that look at where the illegal immigration is happening, and wonder why we don’t spend the money on the major points of illegal entry, which is airports and legal border crossing points. Look, I am for immigration, but I absolutely don’t support illegal immigration. I just think Trump is merely trying to partially fulfill a campaign promise, rather than objectively look at how illegal immigration is happening and spend where it will be most effective.

Remember who was going to pay for the wall during the campaign? It wasn’t you and me.....and our kids.

 

[LuisDantas]

The way some people talk, one would assume that there are no walls and no border patrol whatsoever between Mexico and the USA.

It is really scary how "reality-proof" some so-called arguments are.

 

[Twilight Hue]

The wall realistically is only important if you want to see Trump re-elected. that's why he wants it built and the Democrats don't.

Cost and effectiveness are not the real issue. They are just talking points for the public's consumption. While you are right, it's a trivial cost. The folks on the left are also right in that there and much more effective ways of dealing with illegal immigration.

IMO, using talking points you just end up talking past each other.

I assume you'd like to see Trump reelected, right? Well you need a wall built for that.

Otherwise, how does illegal immigration affect you personally?

If that's how it's being viewed , then there are more problems other than the attempts to stem the tide of illegals trying to break into the country.

Illegals are a drain on the economy and pose a danger to health and safety.

The impacts have already taken form as sanctuary cities and even in New York where illegals are encouraged to come through legislations like this...

https://nypost.com/2018/11/12/contr...llegal-immigrants-apply-for-drivers-licenses/

God help us if we can't track these types of individuals....


The Perils of Illegal Border Crossing

Do you say illegals have no impact or repercussions?

It does lead you to ask why illegals are refusing to go through proper channels as so many legal aliens have before them , let's face it it's suspicious, and many who do go through proper channels became naturalized into full-fledged American citizens and enjoying all the rights that come with it with far less hassle although it would be a longer wait time.

I would say a better step to finding a reasonable solution would be reforming the asylum process and making it more accessible, so the screening process can be done correct with the health and safety of other Americans being taken into consideration rather than being thrown out of the equation.

 

[Nakosis]

If that's how it's being viewed , then there are more problems other than the attempts to stem the tide of illegals trying to break into the country.

Illegals are a drain on the economy and pose a danger to health and safety.

The impacts have already taken form as sanctuary cities and even in New York where illegals are encouraged to come through legislations like this...

https://nypost.com/2018/11/12/contr...llegal-immigrants-apply-for-drivers-licenses/

God help us if we can't track these types of individuals....


The Perils of Illegal Border Crossing

Do you say illegals have no impact or repercussions?

It does lead you to ask why illegals are refusing to go through proper channels as so many legal aliens have before them , let's face it it's suspicious, and many who do go through proper channels became naturalized into full-fledged American citizens and enjoying all the rights that come with it with far less hassle although it would be a longer wait time.

I would say a better step to finding a reasonable solution would be reforming the asylum process and making it more accessible, so the screening process can be done correct with the health and safety of other Americans being taken into consideration rather than being thrown out of the equation.

What I am saying is I think this is a better discussion than wall or no wall.

 

[fantome profane]

His current rate is once every other year.

If the pattern holds. Also if the pattern holds each shutdown will be longer than the last.

So, let me put the question directly to you, Do you agree this is a factor worth considering?

 

[youknowme]

Trump hasn't halted the government, as much as they've refused to negotiate on the wall, so he refused to sign any funding bill. They want something, he wants something, so it's called you give someone what they want and they help you get what you want. It's called not acting like a child through cooperation. Besides that, there is much more than the funding going on that the Dems want in the bill -- and Trump is already good with that... So long as they work with him.

Anyway, this is mostly a show that's going to backfire on them. They're going to lose if this goes past 30 days and SNAP and other welfare funding runs out -- which it will, soon. Sure, you might hate the wall, but do you hate it enough to make a large percentage of your voter base face hardship over the point? He's not giving up because, quite simply, he doesn't have to. If he even offers a concession to them it's going to be his own generosity at play. He can wait them out, refuse to sign anything, and literally stall them all freaking day. They need to work with him to get things done, and that's always the position of the President. If they won't budge, he doesn't have to either...

Anyway, when you have security problems a fence is reasonable. If people come to your home and steal things off your lawn you're going to put up a fence and a camera system at least aren't you? It's just the common sense thing to do.

You do realize that the funds for our current border security was included in the budget that Trump refused to sign, right? What happens when they run out of reserve?

 

[Notanumber]

for your fence to equal the border fence, you need to install roughly 328 points of entry, most of which are open 24/7. And build thousands of airports inside of it. And it must only cover a tiny part of the perimeter of your property.

It isn’t only wealthy people who don’t want the fence. It’s those that look at where the illegal immigration is happening, and wonder why we don’t spend the money on the major points of illegal entry, which is airports and legal border crossing points. Look, I am for immigration, but I absolutely don’t support illegal immigration. I just think Trump is merely trying to partially fulfill a campaign promise, rather than objectively look at how illegal immigration is happening and spend where it will be most effective.

Remember who was going to pay for the wall during the campaign? It wasn’t you and me.....and our kids.

My fence is more cost effective than employing full time security operatives.

 

[Revoltingest]

If the pattern holds. Also if the pattern holds each shutdown will be longer than the last.

So, let me put the question directly to you, Do you agree this is a factor worth considering?

I have considered it.
But I think very likely to be unproductive because of asymmetry.
If they hold out until they win, it might either make Trump more
or less prone to becoming entrenched in the future. So the long
term gain is unknown. But the short term loss will be huge if
it drags out for many months.

 

[Milton Platt]

My fence is more cost effective than employing full time security operatives.

that’s because you don’t have 328 gates that are open 24/7 and airplanes aren’t landing in your yard.

 

[Notanumber]

that’s because you don’t have 328 gates that are open 24/7 and airplanes aren’t landing in your yard.

The Roman’s were a force to be reckoned with and they built a wall in the UK to keep the Scots out, so it is not a new idea.

The simplest fact is that only strength assures freedom. A strong border reinforces safe immigration. A strong and effective immigration policy relies on having a tightly controlled border AND an asylum and entry facilitation process that is thorough, lawful and dispassionate. The USA has had this in place in other points of entry, such as Ellis Island. Leaving the Mexican frontier open now is just stupid policy. An integrated, careful process to process would be immigrants as quickly and carefully as possible needs to become part of the new American way of doing things. There is no swifter way to guarantee overall immigration policy change than the construction of the physical barrier along the US-Mexican border.

It does not matter how anyone feels or thinks. Walls work when used rightly. President Trump’s plan satisfies all the required needs for a good US immigration policy as regards the Mexican border.

https://theduran.com/a-dispassionate-case-for-the-american-border-wall/

 

[Milton Platt]

The Roman’s were a force to be reckoned with and they built a wall in the UK to keep the Scots out, so it is not a new idea.

The simplest fact is that only strength assures freedom. A strong border reinforces safe immigration. A strong and effective immigration policy relies on having a tightly controlled border AND an asylum and entry facilitation process that is thorough, lawful and dispassionate. The USA has had this in place in other points of entry, such as Ellis Island. Leaving the Mexican frontier open now is just stupid policy. An integrated, careful process to process would be immigrants as quickly and carefully as possible needs to become part of the new American way of doing things. There is no swifter way to guarantee overall immigration policy change than the construction of the physical barrier along the US-Mexican border.

It does not matter how anyone feels or thinks. Walls work when used rightly. President Trump’s plan satisfies all the required needs for a good US immigration policy as regards the Mexican border.

https://theduran.com/a-dispassionate-case-for-the-american-border-wall/

we agree on a strong border and good immigration policy, just not on the wall
Cheers!

 

[Notanumber]

we agree on a strong border and good immigration policy, just not on the wall
Cheers!

I like what this man says about the wall.

Border walls are on the increase around the world.

 

[Altfish]

 

[Altfish]