The wall costs the government $10 more than a large pizza.

[Audie]

Are some republican people so scared of foreign people that they must box them self in with a wall to "protect them self" ? How about trying to help those who are in need instead of only looking at one self?

Think how much 5,7 billion could do for the poor in America, or reduce the drug cartels inside of the border, Those who actually order the mexican drugs that do come over the border. Or get a propper health care system that does not only benefit the rich.
So much could be done without building a wall.

Are you so in need of a way to hold aloft your
assumed moral superiority that you need to make
up rhetorical "questions" about people you do not
know or understand?

The issue is not being "scared of foreign people".
That is total B-S.

So is "box inside a wall". Yours is a very childish
view. Besides being very insulting.

Likewise with your "health care that only benefits
the rich".

Then there is "help those in need instead of self".

Terrific, though, that you brought that last one up!


Tell us,do you spend time meditating and going to
whatever temples you like, or do you work hard
earning money with which to help those in need?
Instead of only looking at one (sic) self?


Hmm? Do you? Overseas volunteer work? Housing some
refugees in your home? Hmm?

I give more to charitable causes in a year than
you have earned in your life.

I happen to be an immigrant myself, of a minority
race in the USA. I came in the front door, legally.

The requirements for legal immigration are quite
strict, and it can take a very long time. I have
relatives whose number will probably never
come up.

Meanwhile, all the people who can find a way to
skip the line, break into the USA should be
welcomed? Is that the policy in your country,
town, in your home?

A "foreign" point of view, such as yours, is certainly welcome,
but not so much if it is hypocritical, ignorant, insulting
and preachy.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

"President Trump is asking for $5.7 Billion, out of an annual budget of $4.407 Trillion.

In other words, Trump wants 57 bucks, out of an annual budget of $44,070.

Think about that. Imagine your spouse saying, "We're not going back to work, the kids aren't getting their allowances, and no bills are getting paid until you give up the idea of spending 57 bucks to fence in our yard."

This is what Pelosi and Schumer have halted our government for."

source: Red White Blue News


Essentially, this is the level of absurdity to the Democrat position. They're literally arguing over one large pizza or so... (For us normal folks...) So, everyone has to suffer for that. Does that seem justified?

Anyway, I think such comparisons are important to understand what a pittance the total amount is. How does this make you feel about the positions various politicians are taking on this matter?

I don't particularly find that Democrat voters themselves are largely against border security or reasonably priced wall. (It seems price is the largest concern for Dems... Not whether we need to have one, or the people to keep it running.)

P.S. Also, what happened to the Secure Fence Act 50 billion? H.R.6061 - 109th Congress (2005-2006): Secure Fence Act of 2006 Does anyone know? That's a helluva lot of fence.

- opposition to the wall isn't just about cost.

- if $5.7 billion (for initial capital costs, plus however much ongoing maintenance is) is a "pittance" to you, I trust you would have no issue with a $5.7 billion tax increase to pay for it without touching other budget items, right?

 

[sayak83]

Ridiculous ideas do get funded.
Some of them are far worse than the proposed wall, eg, the various recent wars.
Their ill effects & costs dwarf the wall, yet they got & still get bi-partisan funding.

As we approach the cost of the shutdown exceeding the cost of the wall, it appears
that the Dems are cutting off their nose to spite their face. IOW, to save money on
the wall is going to cost more than building it even if they get their way.
(Game of go analogy: When you have a heavy group under attack, defending
it can create weaknesses which will cost you the game. Don't save the group,
but force the opponent to attack in such a way that he's weakened.)

Their problem is that they're too wedded to the belief that Trump is wrong, & they are
right. Being right is irrelevant. Trump is who he is, & he does what he does.
I won't say that "resistance is futile", but "resistance must be tempered with practicality".
It's a game of chicken, thus each side must consider the predilections of the other.
The most efficient path is negotiating something quickly.

Why? The democrat supporters are solidly behind them in not giving an inch to Trump.

 

[Audie]

I believe in open borders and relaxed immigration regimes. Anybody who is not a murderer or rapist on the the run and who wants a permission to work in a country should be given one regardless of skill and then citizenship if there is no felony conviction on him/her for 10 years. Humans should be able to move around the world as freely as birds.

That is a nice idealistic vision.

MAYBE some day it could come true.

For now, though, to be fair,should not the rich
provide transportation to the poor? There are
at least a billion people who would love to go
to Europe or North America, but cannot
walk to the Rio Grande, because they are like
in Africa and Asia.

What do you say, repurpose the cruise ships,
do what we can to help move people around?

 

[metis]

Anyway, I think such comparisons are important to understand what a pittance the total amount is.

Good, then I'm sure that Mexico will be more than willing to pay for it as Trump repeatedly promised.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Are you so in need of a way to hold aloft your
assumed moral superiority that you need to make
up rhetorical "questions" about people you do not
know or understand?

The issue is not being "scared of foreign people".
That is total B-S.

So is "box inside a wall". Yours is a very childish
view. Besides being very insulting.

Likewise with your "health care that only benefits
the rich".

Then there is "help those in need instead of self".

Terrific, though, that you brought that last one up!


Tell us,do you spend time meditating and going to
whatever temples you like, or do you work hard
earning money with which to help those in need?
Instead of only looking at one (sic) self?


Hmm? Do you? Overseas volunteer work? Housing some
refugees in your home? Hmm?

I give more to charitable causes in a year than
you have earned in your life.

I happen to be an immigrant myself, of a minority
race in the USA. I came in the front door, legally.

The requirements for legal immigration are quite
strict, and it can take a very long time. I have
relatives whose number will probably never
come up.

Meanwhile, all the people who can find a way to
skip the line, break into the USA should be
welcomed? Is that the policy in your country,
town, in your home?

A "foreign" point of view, such as yours, is certainly welcome,
but not so much if it is hypocritical, ignorant, insulting
and preachy.

I have worked all my adult life until 3 years ago when i was in a bus accidant that almost killed so i am not able to work, but i am getting there.
Those money i do get i dont keep, i give them to my fianceè after my art of the rent is paied. so do not have money for my self. But those times i do gain some extra i give to a shelter for homeless.
And yes i do volenter for helping others without thinking of my self.

I do follow the news in America because i find it interesting that different news say different things about the president. Even Fox News have now started to quote him and finding fault statments and lies.

I do not know if you trying to insult me with you atitude but i can tell it does not affect me.

 

[Audie]

I have worked all my adult life until 3 years ago when i was in a bus accidant that almost killed so i am not able to work, but i am getting there.
Those money i do get i dont keep, i give them to my fianceè after my art of the rent is paied. so do not have money for my self. But those times i do gain some extra i give to a shelter for homeless.
And yes i do volenter for helping others without thinking of my self.

I do follow the news in America because i find it interesting that different news say different things about the president. Even Fox News have now started to quote him and finding fault statments and lies.

I do not know if you trying to insult me with you atitude but i can tell it does not affect me.

If you wish to sidestep any responsibility for your
own attitudes and behaviour by putting it on me
that I am trying to "insult" you, well, that is one
way of evading some of that self-knowledge that
are seeking elsewhere.

I dont see it as something to take pride in that
you would let no observations from outside
your own head affect you.

 

[Spirit of Light]

If you wish to sidestep any responsibility for your
own attitudes and behaviour by putting it on me
that I am trying to "insult" you, well, that is one
way of evading some of that self-knowledge that
are seeking elsewhere.

I dont see it as something to take pride in that
you would let no observations from outside
your own head affect you.

Why would i take pride in anything?
My observation was your way of asking questions toward me, your written way, what you thinking i do not know of course. But you said

"A "foreign" point of view, such as yours, is certainly welcome,
but not so much if it is hypocritical, ignorant, insulting
and preachy."

Can you explain what you mean by this?

 

[youknowme]

If you wish to sidestep any responsibility for your
own attitudes and behaviour by putting it on me
that I am trying to "insult" you, well, that is one
way of evading some of that self-knowledge that
are seeking elsewhere.

I dont see it as something to take pride in that
you would let no observations from outside
your own head affect you.

That is not what he said, you are misconstruing his words. Not letting insults get to you is not the same as being closed minded. You can brush aside the insults and still be open minded.

 

[Audie]

Why would i take pride in anything?
My observation was your way of asking questions toward me, your written way, what you thinking i do not know of course. But you said

"A "foreign" point of view, such as yours, is certainly welcome,
but not so much if it is hypocritical, ignorant, insulting
and preachy."

Can you explain what you mean by this?

As you said-
but i can tell it does not affect me.

So how do you feel about making strong your face
against any constructive criticism?


I went through your post once already
pointing out the false, the ignorant, the
hypocritical, the insulting and the preachy.

Asking me to explain it again is just
another try at sidestepping responsibility
for yourself and trying to put it on me.

 

[Spirit of Light]

As you said-
but i can tell it does not affect me.

So how do you feel about making strong your face
against any constructive criticism?


I went through your post once already
pointing out the false, the ignorant, the
hypocritical, the insulting and the preachy.

Asking me to explain it again is just
another try at sidestepping responsibility
for yourself and trying to put it on me.

I dont mind being critizised.
But i do not see my self in your answer to my question.

To other members: does my posts come across as
false, the ignorant, the
hypocritical, the insulting and the preachy.

If yes let me know

 

[Audie]

I dont mind being critizised.
But i do not see my self in your answer to my question.

To other members: does my posts come across as
false, the ignorant, the
hypocritical, the insulting and the preachy.

If yes let me know

One particular post, please.

here it is, with relevant portions bolded.

Amanaki said: ↑
Are some republican people so scared of foreign people that they must box them self in with a wall to "protect them self" ? How about trying to help those who are in need instead of only looking at one self?

Think how much 5,7 billion could do for the poor in America, or reduce the drug cartels inside of the border, Those who actually order the mexican drugs that do come over the border. Or get a propper health care system that does not only benefit the rich.
So much could be done without building a wall.

 

[Audie]

That is not what he said, you are misconstruing his words. Not letting insults get to you is not the same as being closed minded. You can brush aside the insults and still be open minded.

That is fine, if what is brushed aside is in fact an insult.

The thing about "republicans" being "scared" and wanting to
"box" themselves in certainly is ill informed and insulting.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Trump hasn't halted the government, as much as they've refused to negotiate on the wall, so he refused to sign any funding bill. They want something, he wants something, so it's called you give someone what they want and they help you get what you want. It's called not acting like a child through cooperation. Besides that, there is much more than the funding going on that the Dems want in the bill -- and Trump is already good with that... So long as they work with him.

Anyway, this is mostly a show that's going to backfire on them. They're going to lose if this goes past 30 days and SNAP and other welfare funding runs out -- which it will, soon. Sure, you might hate the wall, but do you hate it enough to make a large percentage of your voter base face hardship over the point? He's not giving up because, quite simply, he doesn't have to. If he even offers a concession to them it's going to be his own generosity at play. He can wait them out, refuse to sign anything, and literally stall them all freaking day. They need to work with him to get things done, and that's always the position of the President. If they won't budge, he doesn't have to either...

Anyway, when you have security problems a fence is reasonable. If people come to your home and steal things off your lawn you're going to put up a fence and a camera system at least aren't you? It's just the common sense thing to do.

This is Trump's show. 100%. He said as much just a couple of days ago (though he's saying something different now - but we all know he's a liar).

 

[Spirit of Light]

One particular post, please.

here it is, with relevant portions bolded.

Amanaki said: ↑
Are some republican people so scared of foreign people that they must box them self in with a wall to "protect them self" ? How about trying to help those who are in need instead of only looking at one self?

Think how much 5,7 billion could do for the poor in America, or reduce the drug cartels inside of the border, Those who actually order the mexican drugs that do come over the border. Or get a propper health care system that does not only benefit the rich.
So much could be done without building a wall.

And was it wrong to ask if republicans are so scare of foreign that they need a wall as protection? is it insulting to ask, or may it be that i asked because it actually seems like they can not live if they do not get the wall?

Health care not only for the rich also for poor is the meaning of my statement in this qoute you made of my answer.

 

[fantome profane]

"President Trump is asking for $5.7 Billion, out of an annual budget of $4.407 Trillion.

In other words, Trump wants 57 bucks, out of an annual budget of $44,070.

No, 5.7 billion dollars is not the same as 57 dollars. You cannot just divide by 100000000 and say it is the same.

In other words, this is a bunch of crap.

 

[Revoltingest]

This is Trump's show. 100%. He said as much just a couple of days ago (though he's saying something different now - but we all know he's a liar).

Clearly, we cannot go by what Trump says.
He'll say that he shut government when it
serves him, & deny it when that serves him.
We must apply our own judgement.
Both sides are causing damage by not finding
some middle ground. Both bear responsibility.

 

[Audie]

And was it wrong to ask if republicans are so scare of foreign that they need a wall as protection? is it insulting to ask, or may it be that i asked because it actually seems like they can not live if they do not get the wall?

Health care not only for the rich also for poor is the meaning of my statement in this qoute you made of my answer.

You definitely need to work on your insight.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Clearly, we cannot go by what Trump says.
He'll say that he shut government when it
serves him, & deny it when that serves him.
We must apply our own judgement.
Both sides are causing damage by not finding
some middle ground. Both bear responsibility.

I do not agree. This is 100% on Trump. As he said.

As noted by others, the Dems have offered compromise. The House passed a bill to keep the government open. So did the Senate (though the refuse to vote again now, given that Trump won't accept it). Trump doubled down on his wall. He is not at all interested in compromise. He wants his wall, and that's that. He doesn't even have Republican support for it, for Pete's sake.

 

[Revoltingest]

I do not agree. This is 100% on Trump. As he said.

You believe him?
It's possible that he was honest about that intention.
It's also possible that it was bargaining bluster.
And not, it's also possibly emotional investment in a stand taken.
This win-at-all-costs mentality could be afflicting both sides.

As noted by others, the Dems have offered compromise. The House passed a bill to keep the government open. So did the Senate (though the refuse to vote again now, given that Trump won't accept it). Trump doubled down on his wall. He is not at all interested in compromise. He wants his wall, and that's that. He doesn't even have Republican support for it, for Pete's sake.

I don't doubt Democrats having offered a compromise.
And it's certainly possible that Trump refuses to compromise.
But let's consider a scenario wherein 3 months down the road
government is still in shutdown mode. Costs will be in the
$15 billion range. About $10 billion would have been lost.
Each party which refuses to give in owns that loss.
One side having right on their side doesn't change this.

The best approach is to play it as a board game, rather
than right vs wrong. Minimize the loss.