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The wall costs the government $10 more than a large pizza.

Discussion in 'North American Politics' started by Mindmaster, Jan 11, 2019.

  1. Mindmaster

    Mindmaster Well-Known Member
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    "President Trump is asking for $5.7 Billion, out of an annual budget of $4.407 Trillion.

    In other words, Trump wants 57 bucks, out of an annual budget of $44,070.

    Think about that. Imagine your spouse saying, "We're not going back to work, the kids aren't getting their allowances, and no bills are getting paid until you give up the idea of spending 57 bucks to fence in our yard."

    This is what Pelosi and Schumer have halted our government for."

    source: Red White Blue News


    Essentially, this is the level of absurdity to the Democrat position. They're literally arguing over one large pizza or so... (For us normal folks...) So, everyone has to suffer for that. Does that seem justified?

    Anyway, I think such comparisons are important to understand what a pittance the total amount is. How does this make you feel about the positions various politicians are taking on this matter?

    I don't particularly find that Democrat voters themselves are largely against border security or reasonably priced wall. (It seems price is the largest concern for Dems... Not whether we need to have one, or the people to keep it running.)

    P.S. Also, what happened to the Secure Fence Act 50 billion? H.R.6061 - 109th Congress (2005-2006): Secure Fence Act of 2006 Does anyone know? That's a helluva lot of fence.
     
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  2. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
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    In my view yes. If there is need, Democrats should start charitable fund me's to support the furloughed state employees...but not a single penny should go to that ridiculous idea of a wall.
     
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  3. Mindmaster

    Mindmaster Well-Known Member
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    It's so ridiculous that you live in walls to protect you, no doubt. :D It's just a factious argument. It's obvious you can handle it with structures or large outlays (on-going) of manpower. Manpower costs are way higher than the wall, and having a wall lets you reduce that staff provided it's adequate because it creates choke points that are much easier to protect.

    Though, Democrats are never going to give money to anyone. Trust me, on that... You're more likely to get money banging on a pile of rocks with a hammer.
     
  4. Amanaki

    Amanaki The truth lay within you.

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    Are some republican people so scared of foreign people that they must box them self in with a wall to "protect them self" ? How about trying to help those who are in need instead of only looking at one self?

    Think how much 5,7 billion could do for the poor in America, or reduce the drug cartels inside of the border, Those who actually order the mexican drugs that do come over the border. Or get a propper health care system that does not only benefit the rich.
    So much could be done without building a wall.
     
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  5. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
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    I believe in open borders and relaxed immigration regimes. Anybody who is not a murderer or rapist on the the run and who wants a permission to work in a country should be given one regardless of skill and then citizenship if there is no felony conviction on him/her for 10 years. Humans should be able to move around the world as freely as birds.
     
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  6. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    Or imagine saying "We're not going back to work, the kids aren't getting their allowances, and no bills are getting paid unless you agree to spend 57 bucks to fence in our yard."

    This is what Trump has halted your government for.
     
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  7. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    Methinks someone is trying to shift the blame from the Toddler in Chief to the adults in the room for the toddler's tantrum.
     
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  8. Mindmaster

    Mindmaster Well-Known Member
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    Trump hasn't halted the government, as much as they've refused to negotiate on the wall, so he refused to sign any funding bill. They want something, he wants something, so it's called you give someone what they want and they help you get what you want. It's called not acting like a child through cooperation. Besides that, there is much more than the funding going on that the Dems want in the bill -- and Trump is already good with that... So long as they work with him.

    Anyway, this is mostly a show that's going to backfire on them. They're going to lose if this goes past 30 days and SNAP and other welfare funding runs out -- which it will, soon. Sure, you might hate the wall, but do you hate it enough to make a large percentage of your voter base face hardship over the point? He's not giving up because, quite simply, he doesn't have to. If he even offers a concession to them it's going to be his own generosity at play. He can wait them out, refuse to sign anything, and literally stall them all freaking day. They need to work with him to get things done, and that's always the position of the President. If they won't budge, he doesn't have to either...

    Anyway, when you have security problems a fence is reasonable. If people come to your home and steal things off your lawn you're going to put up a fence and a camera system at least aren't you? It's just the common sense thing to do.
     
  9. Mindmaster

    Mindmaster Well-Known Member
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    Me thinks you are just trying to evade the topic.. :D
     
  10. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
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    He will and the Dems will win...count on it.
     
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  11. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    The majority of Americans know who to blame, and it's not the Democrats they're blaming. Only die-hard Trump supporters are biased enough to blame the Democrats.

    Your side, Mindmaster, will never be convinced it's in the wrong --- but you've lost this one anyway.
     
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  12. Mindmaster

    Mindmaster Well-Known Member
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    Yeah, that has never worked... But, that's mostly because there are massive criminal cartels in Mexico that thrive because they own the government. It's not about race, it's about safety. Certainly, we don't have this problem with any number of other people coming from Europe or elsewhere. Mexico has massive problems that are bleeding into our area.

    And, I don't know any other country that just takes "anyone"... Most countries require you to prove you have adequate income to not be a burden on the social system upon arrival. Most countries won't even take you if you don't have a 4 year degree, either. Some are even more specific with that degree in that they will only let you come in with SPECIFIC degrees. So, if these are the rules that most of the world uses, why do we have to be different? We don't....
     
  13. Woberts

    Woberts The Perfumed Seneschal

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    So it's ok since other people are doing it?
     
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  14. ImmortalFlame

    ImmortalFlame Well-Known Member

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    "When you compare one thing to another, far, far smaller thing and then equate the two as being virtually the same, it makes it seem like far less of a big deal!"

    The comparison is so absurdly ridiculous it's almost maddening to believe it needs to be explained why...

    Just so we're on the same page: does this mean that any time the Democrats ask for any amount equal to or less than $5.7 billion for their policies, the Republicans should just give it to them regardless of what it's for or the justifications for it?
     
    #14 ImmortalFlame, Jan 11, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
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  15. Mindmaster

    Mindmaster Well-Known Member
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    I have no side, next.

    And no, I blame all parties when they won't work together -- it's a two-sided problem. But, if one is offering a trade "this" for "that" I'd consider that fair any way you decide to frame it. He's already promised to do what they want if they'll keep their word to help him. That's the same tune he's been singing since the beginning... During Obama's term Schumer was all down to deal with the border, but flim-flammed... He's the one that doesn't make sense here. Pelosi should have stepped down a long time ago, she's aging like vinegar in mental capacity. I don't even feel confident she knows what she's doing at all... I've seen her talk several times and literally her own assistants and associates are making bug eyes at her.

    But, all that being said... I don't think he needs to cave, and they eventually will have to. Trumps voter base is working class Joe's, not welfare recipients (in hugely Democrat urban centers)... It essentially doesn't matter if he burns that bridge, they'd never have voted him in anyway. That's why I say they have no leverage. He can wait them out while the free money machine implodes. I'm sure he'd prefer not to, but I think he'd not back down an inch even in this case.
     
  16. Mindmaster

    Mindmaster Well-Known Member
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    Do you think they're just doing it to be difficult, or that there are important reasons for having this criteria to immigrate to their country? I tend to think it's to make sure that the standards of their country are kept to some desired level, whatever those standards may be.
     
  17. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    So, he halted the government because he didn't get what he wanted, but it doesn't count as him halting the government because he only did it as a negotiating tactic to get what he wants?

    That's nearly as bad as your family analogy :D
     
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  18. Mindmaster

    Mindmaster Well-Known Member
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    If we built the wall and rectified visa overstays, we'd save at least 150 billion each year after the initial outlay. So, how many poor people can you help with that?
     
  19. Quetzal

    Quetzal A little to the left and slightly out of focus.
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    This is nonsense. There have been several bills passed by the House, including additional funding for border security. The GOP in the Senate even approved of it. Now they won't vote at all. That is where the blame rests despite your desire for the contrary.
     
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  20. Notanumber

    Notanumber A Free Man

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    I live in a relatively crime free area but ever since my garage was broken into and my expensive power tools were stolen I keep a locked gate across the drive.

    My insurance company want to know where I keep my vehicles overnight and because they are in effect in a locked compound, my premiums are reduced.

    This makes sense to me and I can’t see why the same principle cannot apply to a country.

    Most people with a lot more money/property than I have spend a lot more than I do on home security.

    I know that some of these wealthy types including celebrities have even had public footpaths rerouted so that the unwanted are kept off their land. Quite often, these same people campaign for open borders.
     
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