1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured The stars shall fall from heaven...

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by adrian009, Feb 11, 2020.

  1. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2019
    Messages:
    13,292
    Ratings:
    +4,388
    Religion:
    Christian
    So you are Jewish and live in Israel? How did I get that so wrong?

    The Jews in Jerusalem didn't like the upstart from Galilee.. Not all of them but some of them. The Jews were pretty fractured by then any way.. Herodians, Essenes, Zealots, Sicarri, Pharisees and Saducees were pretty much at each other's throats.
     
  2. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    Messages:
    6,762
    Ratings:
    +564
    Religion:
    Christian
    Il

    Let's take that of Luke 10:25-37..
    First who's the neighbor that Jesus speaks of...
    Jesus speaking about the good
    Samaritan. Have you any idea who the Samaritan is and how they became Samaritans..
    You know only two of them were brother's of Israel. The Priest and Levite were brother's of Israel.
    the Samaritans was half breeds Jew of Israel..which Israel considered the Samaritans as their neighbors.
    The Samaritans worship the same God as did Israel.
    The Samaritans lived close by Israel.
    The Samaritans father was Jacob.

    You can read about how a Samaritan woman giving Jesus a drink of water at the well of her father Jacob's well in
    John 4:1-54.



    Now as for Matthew 7:1-4..had you read it carefully..there were times that Jesus told the people to judge for themselves.

    As in John 7:24---"Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment"
    Therefore I can judge as long as I don't do it by the appearance..but make absolutely positively certain they are doing what they are revealing.
    But that I do righteous judgment.

    Yes that maybe true..but however those Levitical laws the Pharisees and Sanhedrin would twist them into what they wanted them to say..to make themselves look good before the people of Israel..
    This is another reason why Jesus Christ condemned the Pharisees and Sanhedrin.
    Saying to the people of Israel.
    Matthew 23:23.28.
    23--"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone"

    Matthew 23:28--"Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within you are full of hypocrisy and iniquity"
    Matthew 23:1-5---"Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,

    2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

    3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

    4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

    5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments'

    As you see. Jesus condemned the Pharisees and Sanhedrin because they took the levitical laws and twist them into making themselves look good before the people of Israel.

    Thank you for your time and input.

    But when upon reading the

    bible/scriptures one should remember to search out everything.

    Jesus saying not to judge. But it is permissible to judge as long as it's done by righteous judgment.
     
  3. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    Messages:
    6,762
    Ratings:
    +564
    Religion:
    Christian
    That's because there were some of the Pharisees and Sanhedrin who believed in Jesus Christ.
    These being the true seed children of Abraham.

    Not all people of Israel live in Israel.
    There are many of Israel that live in other countries..
    God did by promise to father Abraham that out of him would come great Nations and kingdoms.
    Now why do you suppose the United States is such a great and powerful nation?
    Could it be.becsuse God promise father Abraham that out of him would come great Nations and kingdoms.
    It's not because the United States bless Israel.. but because the United States is those 10 tribes of Israel.
    Therefore God kept his promises to father Abraham and raised up the United States to become a great nation and powerful nation on earth.
    You know many of Christianity will say.
    Those who bless Israel God shall bless them.
    That's right..but God never said he would make those greater than his own people Israel. Only that God would bless them..

    That's like. For say that you have children..
    Would you take a complete stranger just because they bless your children and set them higher than your own children.

    My guess is that you would not.
    So my question is to those of Christianity. You really believe that God would actually take another nation and exalt that Nation higher and mightier than his own people Israel.
    Is there something wrong with that picture.

    God said he would bless them.
    But never said he would make them greater and mightier and more powerful than his own people Israel.
    Thank you and have a great weekend.
     
  4. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2019
    Messages:
    13,292
    Ratings:
    +4,388
    Religion:
    Christian
    You think the ten tribes of Israel made America great? Really?

    Israel has been on the dole since 1948.
     
  5. cataway

    cataway Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,333
    Ratings:
    +171
    Religion:
    jw עדי יהווה
    You likely don't know it but you are missing some thing
     
  6. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    Messages:
    6,762
    Ratings:
    +564
    Religion:
    Christian
    Well speak up. So what am I missing
     
  7. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    Messages:
    6,762
    Ratings:
    +564
    Religion:
    Christian
    Look there is only 2 tribes left in Israel.
    The tribe of Israel and the tribe of Judah.

    The other 10 tribes broke off from Israel and went over the Caucasus mountains to settle in the European lands and then went from there over the Atlantic ocean and settled in what is now called the United States.. At one time Britain was the most powerful nation on earth.
    Why else would the United States and Britain be great nation. That God promise Abraham that great Nations would come from him.

    You really don't believe that God would rise up a country greater than his own people Israel..
    God did tell Abraham that out of him would come great Nations and kingdoms...
    And yes God did say that he would bless those who bless his children.
    God said he would bless.
    God did not say he would rise up those greater than his own people Israel.
    Only bless them.
     
  8. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    17,010
    Ratings:
    +1,133
    Religion:
    Christian
    I believe a meteor shower would qualify. It is something easily viewed in the night sky.
     
  9. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    17,010
    Ratings:
    +1,133
    Religion:
    Christian
    i believe signs can't be metaphors.

    I believe that is fantasy.

    I believe you can't get a valid conclusion out of a fantasy.
     
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  10. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    17,010
    Ratings:
    +1,133
    Religion:
    Christian
    i believe God knows everything about heavenly bodies but the language of the day might cause a limitation.
     
  11. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    15,571
    Ratings:
    +7,808
    Religion:
    None
    But then, the book was written by ordinary people who
    did not know what they were talking about.
     
  12. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    15,571
    Ratings:
    +7,808
    Religion:
    None
    That is why Christians get so mixed up when they try to
    figure how "genesis" fits with data, which of course it
    does not and never will.
     
  13. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    Messages:
    6,762
    Ratings:
    +564
    Religion:
    Christian
    If you understood what the Bible considers stars to represents..
    The Stars that fall from heaven..are not actually stars that we see in the sky at night..
    So what would the stars that fall from heaven represents?
     
  14. cataway

    cataway Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,333
    Ratings:
    +171
    Religion:
    jw עדי יהווה
    the literal stars stand fixed in the heavens and can give guidance . when viewed symbolically or to say they represent either persons or agency's that have given guidance in the past. but then have then failed to give necessary guidance in hard times.
     
  15. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    Messages:
    6,762
    Ratings:
    +564
    Religion:
    Christian

    Those stars that Jesus Christ spoken of that will fall from heaven..are not actual stars that we in the sky at night...

    Those Stars represents the angles of Satan and Satan himself when Satan and his angels are finally cast out of heaven and fall to the earth..
    Revelation 12:7-9.
    This all happens when the 6th seal is open in Revelation 6:12-13..
     
  16. cataway

    cataway Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,333
    Ratings:
    +171
    Religion:
    jw עדי יהווה
    no they did not fall they were thrown out . the stars in Matthew 24 fell because they failed to hold on to their positions .
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  17. CG Didymus

    CG Didymus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2012
    Messages:
    6,123
    Ratings:
    +2,622
    Religion:
    undecided
    In this verse who is the "sun" and who is the "moon"? I imagine you believe the "glory of God" is Baha'u'llah but in this verse who do you say is the Lamb?
     
  18. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2014
    Messages:
    9,687
    Ratings:
    +8,061
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    The language is symbolic of course and not to be taken literally. The lamb is a Messianic reference to the Christ or Messiah. That doesn’t have to be specific to Jesus but can refer to other Manifestations of God or Christs or Messiahs. The Glory of God refers to the Father as opposed to the Son. In Christian theology there is a strong identification with the Divinity of Christ where the Father and Son are one (John 10:30). In Baha’i theology Bahá’u’lláh is literally translated as the Glory of God and one of His designations is the Father.

    The Sun and moon can symbolise many aspects of Faith. That can include God Himself as distinct from His Messenger or Manifestation. In Islam they represent fasting and prayer. In saying the City has no need of the sun and moon is simply emphasising the spiritual over the physical.

    That’s how I see it.
     
  19. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Immersion in the Ocean of God's Word
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2017
    Messages:
    10,103
    Ratings:
    +4,430
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    I also see it can be saying this is the Bab and Baha'u'llah. The lamb in this case being the Bab, as His Revelation was the perpetration for Baha'u'llah and just as Christ was Crucified 2000 years ago, the Bab also gave His life so that Humanity may find the Glory of God.

    Regards Tony
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Rise

    Rise Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2012
    Messages:
    669
    Ratings:
    +75
    It could have a very literal meaning. I've heard it suggested that the Greek word for "star" can refer to different types of heavenly bodies, not just what we today regard as a star. There are some modern prophets who say they have been given visions of the end times that involves asteroids hitting all over the earth at once. One of them assumed they were nuclear missiles at first, but when asking God about it He informed him that they were either asteroids or meteors (I forget what exact term was used).

    I personally would probably not have assumed that was what the verse was saying by reading it myself, but what visions they have do make me go back to the Scripture and realize that such a vision could indeed be supported by the text.

    I'm not personally sure on the idea that what that person saw was genuine prophecy, but it does seem to be a possibility.
     
    #120 Rise, Feb 28, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2020
Loading...