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Featured The stars shall fall from heaven...

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by adrian009, Feb 11, 2020.

  1. adrian009

    adrian009 Veteran Member
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    That is true. How would you account for sun becoming dimmed and the moon no longer shedding her light?
     
  2. adrian009

    adrian009 Veteran Member
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    Welcome back @Rise

    Considering the Greek word for star having a broader meaning opens up the possibility of different phenomena such as asteroids as you suggest. We still have the problem of changes to the sun and the moon of course.

    What could also be of interest are similar verses in the Tanakh such as Isaiah 13:10, Isaiah 34:4 and Jeremiah 4:23. To some extent some of these verses may be Messianic and refer to Christ’s first Advent as well as His Second Coming. In that case viewing them symbolically makes more sense.

    It seems useful to consider how Christ did and didn’t fulfilled prophecy to inform us as to the signs that accompany His Second Advent.
     
  3. Yonis

    Yonis New Member

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    Or the sun goes into red giant stage and swallows up the two wondering stars planets before earth. then shrinks to a white dwarf.

    Larger scale Milky Way and andromeda collide.
     
    #123 Yonis, Mar 2, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2020
  4. Rise

    Rise Well-Known Member

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    Why would that be a problem? It's not difficult to imagine a variety of scenarios within our current understandings that could potentially block the sun and the moon from giving light to the inhabitants of the earth. There is nothing in the verses that requires the sun and moon as physical entities disappear entirely. They could merely be obscured.

    I don't see a need to view those symbolically either, for the same reason that I don't see their reference to the light of the heavens disappearing to be a challenging scenario to imagine. They sound like references to Christ's second coming, without any need for them to refer to his first coming.
     
  5. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    "At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory." Luke 21:27

    Cloud is made of vapor, and is lighter than air. Cloud goes up, it doesn't come down. How would that be explained scientifically? Why cloud is needed to be with Jesus when He comes?
     
  6. cataway

    cataway Well-Known Member

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    its really not difficult to understand . in clouds things are hidden . .like airplanes . you may of heard an airplane fly over ,you looked for it but because of the cloud you could not see it .but you knew it was there because of the sound it makes . the noise it makes is a sign to you.
    Jesus gave signs , something to look out for, showing that he was there . have you not seen the signs ?
     
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  7. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe one does not need to know what God knows to write down what God says.
     
  8. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe you must be thinking of scientific data which of course is quite limited and there is none about Adam and Eve.
     
  9. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe it is what I said. Logic should tell you that the actual heavenly bodies that light up our sky can't fall to earth.
     
  10. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    logic should tell you.. those stars up in the night sky is not the stars Jesus Christ is referring to.
     
  11. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Possibly you could read the verse in context of the overall day of the Lord, the great tribulation, such as Armageddon, whereas you could compare falling stars with shooting stars, which are not actual stars, and they would weigh "one hundred pounds each" (Revelation 16:21). In context of Zechariah 14:12, possibly multiple warheads of a nuclear weapon in which the individual payloads weigh around 100 pounds each. The consequences of which would be a darkened nuclear winter.
     
  12. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    Those stars are not what a person sees up in the sky at night.
    Jesus Christ said---" And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken" Mark 13:25
    Jesus Christ was not referring to those stars that you see up in the night sky
     
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  13. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    The "stars", lights in the heaven, represent the gods of the heaven. Such as Jupiter represents the god Jupiter, Mars representing Mars, the god of war, ,etc. The original quote is from Is 13:10, Joel 3:15, etc. and is with respect to the "day of the LORD". At that time the gods/stars will fall, and the kings of the earth punished. The wicked will be punished for their wickedness (Isaiah 13:11). That would included the so called "saved" "Christians". They in fact are not "saved", for the day of the LORD has not happened.
     
  14. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    it's a vision of a nuclear war
     
  15. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    The stars that Jesus Christ is referring to..
    are Satan and his angels when they are cast out of heaven will fall like stars from heaven.
    Stars represents angles.
    Notice Jesus Christ showing Stars represents angles in Revelation 1:20--
    --"The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches"

    Throughout the Bible/scriptures stars represents angles.
     
  16. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    The pagan gods, such as Sol Invictus, Mercury, Mars, Apollo (sun god), also represent the fallen angels, who will be cast out. The fifth angel of Revelation 9:2 fell to the earth as "a star" to open the "bottomless pit". You have good angels and bad angels represented as stars/lights in the sky. The god of Greece, the prince of Greece/Gentiles fought the prince of light (Daniel 10:20). The "dragon", the sun god, gave his authority to the "beast" (Revelation 13), and the day of the sun, is the day venerated by the Gentiles by way of the decree of Constantine, the beast with two horns like a lamb, by way of his decree of 321 AD. In this way they worship the dragon, who is represented by the sun star.(Revelation 13:4) Apparently things will not go well for those with the mark of the beast.(Revelation 19:20)
     
  17. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    You know..Jesus Christ given the book of Revelation..
    But you think you know more about it than Jesus Christ does.
    Let's see if you know more about the book of Revelation than who given the book of Revelation Jesus Christ himself.

    Let's see if what you say the mark, number of the beast is... lines up what Jesus Christ given in his book of Revelation what the mark, number of the beast is.

    Let's for say..that a person given a book..
    Now who would know more about that book.
    The one who gave it?
    Or someone else who hasn't a clue or idea what that book is about?

    Now seeing that Jesus Christ given the book of Revelation and all things in Revelation.
    Therefore Jesus Christ is the only who would know what the mark.number of the beast really is.
    Jesus Christ foretold in his book of Revelation what the mark, number of the beast is.
     
    #137 Faithofchristian, Mar 10, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2020
  18. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    The one "who has understanding" can calculate the number of the beast (Revelation 13:18). The mark and the number of the beast are two different things. The number of the beast is the number of his name. The "mark" is a replica of the mark on the hand and forehead of Dt 6:8. The mark of Dt 6:8 is keeping the commandments of God. The mark of the beast, is keeping the commandments/decrees of the beast.
     
  19. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    another one of you not reading the book of Revelation correctly.
    had you read Revelation 13:16 correctly you would have found that no where in Revelation 13:16 said ( on) the hand..
    But ( in ) the hand or ( in ) their foreheads.

    Revelation 13:16--"And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads"

    As you can see there no where in the above verse 16 is the word ( on ) is found..
    but has the word ( in )
    maybe you should have read
    Revelation 13:16 before you speak.

    Now as for Revelation 13:17--"And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name"

    Notice in the above verse 17, there are 3 things the beast has
    1-- mark
    2-- the name of the beast
    3-- the number of the beast

    Now the question is... where in Revelation did Jesus Christ foretold what these are?

    Now as for Revelation 13:18--"Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six"

    in the book of Revelation Jesus Christ not only foretold what the number 666 is.
    But what the number 666 stands for and who it stands for.

    Therefore seeing that Jesus Christ given the book of Revelation
    It would also be logical that Jesus Christ would also know what the number 666 is and who it stands for.
    Jesus Christ foretold what
    the number 666 is and who the number 666 stands for
    in his book of Revelation.
     
  20. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Actually, my bible, The New American Standard, reads "on their right hand". And the oldest recorded version of the number of the beast is 616, and not 666. Deuteronomy 6:8 also reads "on your hand".
     
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