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Featured The Power Of Circular Reasoning

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Skwim, Jun 21, 2019.

  1. JJ50

    JJ50 Well-Known Member

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    He was no sort of god, just a mere human with faults and failings, if some of the things attributed to the guy were correct.
     
  2. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    I don't particularly believe in choices. But the very fact that atheists exist is evidence that we are not commanded by God into belief in his existence.

    That may well be. Please feel free to start one and chime me into it.

    I look forward to the exact wording that it would have. It ought to be enlightening about your perspective.

    Why, because we all share the same world, environment, and ultimately the same moral responsibilities. Neither me nor Christians can change that even if we might sometimes want to.

    I can only assume that you hold an understanding of the nature and consequences of interdependent origination that is rather unlike mine own. I stand somewhat surprised by that. It was one of the main draws of Buddhism for me. but apparently it is not nearly as universal as I once thought.
     
  3. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
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    But I am operating with direct evidence in this case, having, on several occasions, had my brain chemically shut down during surgeries, one for quite a few hours. And I assure you, those are hours in which no sense of "me" existed whatever. I see no reason to suppose that, when my brain shuts down permanently for its own reasons, there should be any difference.
     
  4. Left Coast

    Left Coast Active Member
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    Are you kidding? We have other, better options, right here right now. We put people in prison. Even better, we are also starting to implement ways of rehabilitating people who do evil things so they don't do them again. We've also figured out that punishing people for thought crimes is a horrific, dystopian idea.

    Let's see, the author(s) of every book of the Torah, Joshua, Judges, 1 Samuel...shall I go on? In the New Testament, Paul and the authors of the Gospels at least.

    And it was also devout Christians who Biblically justified slavery.

    Religious revelations don't help at all, because they're also just opinions.
     
    #184 Left Coast, Jun 25, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
  5. Left Coast

    Left Coast Active Member
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    Human survival and prosperity are very much involved in those choices.

    You are simply declaring good and evil to be supernatural with no evidence. We have a natural basis for good and evil - help vs. harm.
     
  6. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    They do when they think they have the knowledge and righteousness of God in their possession. Every time.
     
  7. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    Jesus is a character in an ideological story (we call these myths). A story that is intended to represent to us an ideal. The ideal that "God's" divine spirit exists with us all, and that if we will believe this, and allow this spirit within us to guide our thoughts and actions in life, it will heal us and save us from ourselves, and help us to heal and save others.

    I believe this ideal is accurate because it proves itself to be true, when acted upon.

    The "actuality of the messenger" is irrelevant. What we have, and what matters, now, is the story, and the ideological proposition that the story is offering us.
     
  8. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
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    Is it required that you know the answer to everything? Is it legitimate, when you don't know, to just "slip God in there" somehow -- especially if by "God" you mean something complex enough to be intentional and creative, and especially when this seems to imply that this intentional and creative God must be in some kind of stasis, since there is no time? And then assume that somehow, in the absence of time or anything else, suddenly "wakes up" and decides to create? It's just too, too much!

    But for a mere quantum fluctuation to be precursor to a Big Bang, yes, that too is an assumption (or a guess, or even a question), but it's a lot simpler than the God one, especially given that it is now known that quantum fluctuations do occur. Quantum fluctuation - Wikipedia
     
  9. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
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    Not so, I think. Good and evil are human term...concepts that describe our reaction to various eventualities. If the impala could think abstractly, and conceptually, it might also find it to be an evil thing to be choking to death with a leopard's teeth clamped down on itswindpipe.
     
  10. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    then you cannot say.....Christian belief is self imposed
     
  11. Catholicus

    Catholicus Active Member

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    What faults, what failings ?

    Jesus died a terrible death so as to save each of us personally. How is that a fault or failing ?
     
  12. JJ50

    JJ50 Well-Known Member

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    Yes and so did many others who have saved others and died in the attempt. They didn't come back to life again as Jesus was supposed to have done.
     
  13. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    Why not?
     
  14. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    your previous post.....you claim you don't believe in choices

    if there can be no choice
    then self imposition cannot happen

    religion would then be imposed by Something Greater
     
  15. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    here you go
     
  16. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    I reason.....there is no point in generating several billion copies of a learning device
    only to have each and everyone shut down and fail.....completely

    and I suspect
    your frame of mind and belief
    have some influence to your ability to continue

    you might be able to call it quits

    and it looks like you already have
     
  17. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    That is an arbitrary belief.

    If you will recall, I said that I do not particularly believe in choices. That is not the same as claiming that they do not exist. I am still undecided, and may well always be.

    But in any case, even if there are no choices at all, actions do exist, including self-inflicting of various forms.
     
  18. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    now don't get wishy washy

    you have choice (I think you do)

    or you don't
     
  19. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    Perhaps.

    Honestly, I would not know. And I do not know.
     
  20. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    in this condition.....you are led

    but whatever leads you......I do not know

    so

    make a choice

    are you in control.....having choice to say as you decide
    or are you compelled?
    by a greater force you do not understand
     
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