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Featured The Power Of Circular Reasoning

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Skwim, Jun 21, 2019.

  1. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    A common claim:


    BIBLE IS TRUE GOD IS TRUE CIRCLE.png



    Sound reasoning or not? If not, what does it imply about both the Bible and god?
    ............................................If so, what does it imply about you?

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  2. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    No.


    Its experience of the territory not a map of the territory.


    Wierd.
     
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  3. Amanaki

    Amanaki Well-Known Member

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    Don't you get tired of criticizing God or the Christian faith?
    I don't mind that you do not believe in the bible or God, but why the need to pull down those who wish to follow the Christian faith?
     
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  4. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    I think that is self explanatory.....people like the OP can't believe in God or the Christian faith, so they have to tear down those beliefs because they might be true. :eek: No one else is allowed to have the kind of faith that they lack. Misery loves company and so do unbelievers, apparently. :shrug:

    I liken it to the days of Noah as Jesus said in the Bible.....everyone thought that they were safe because no one believed Noah. I wonder what they were thinking as the water swirled around their knees getting deeper and deeper with nowhere to go to escape the flood of God's anger? Jesus said it was going to happen again....(Matthew 24:37-39)

    No one is forced to believe anything....but it doesn't hurt to consider the possibilities given man's past track record IMO.
     
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  5. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    Why is any analysis of logical error in religious apologetics taken as an attack on God or Christianity?
     
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  6. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    as if to answer your post is self defeating

    not

    and posting such an op speaks volumes about......you
     
  7. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    That I recognize the basis of Christian theology for what it is. :D

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  8. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    your post bears no resemblance to the parables the Carpenter taught
     
  9. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    Good. They weren't meant to.

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  10. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    well then....so much for circular reasoning
     
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  11. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    I know, right?!

    I mean, it's not like they're making money doing it.

    The Bible actually talks about those who would be under the influence of the Great Deceiver.

    Unfortunately though, there are a lot of crazy ideas, ie., tenets, within the 30,000 different teaching groups processing Christianity. That gives the skeptics fodder to use.

    Take care, my cousin.
     
    #11 Hockeycowboy, Jun 21, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2019
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  12. Left Coast

    Left Coast Active Member
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    The idea that you'd be miserable without faith is a lie that some religious organizations tell you to keep you hooked.

    1) how do you know that story is true?

    2) that story, if true, is hideous and demonstrates that Jehovah is a terrible, terrible person. He literally mass murdered everyone on the planet except one family. How is that a god worth following?
     
  13. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    Being miserable isn't a life style, it's a state of mind. Happiness exists in everyone and only you know what makes you happy. Shoot too high=miserable.
    An old saying: when you think you have it bad and/or your life sucks, look around and you will see others that have it worse than you(well with the exception of someone being on the bed fixing to be executed, but then again the ones behind him waiting for their turn probably have it worse simply because they still have to live with the stress while awaiting their turn).
    Be happy with what you have and the rest is gains.

    Edit
    He doesn't know god is true same as you don't know god isn't true. Point being we have one life, live it to the fullest to be happy on your terms, not the terms of others.
     
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  14. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    Exactly! Live and let live. None of us live for the same reasons, seeking the same thing or same goals. Live to what makes you happy. Whether it's believing in a god or not.
     
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  15. Left Coast

    Left Coast Active Member
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    The time to believe something is when there is sufficient evidence for it. There isn't sufficient evidence that there is a god, let alone that there was ever a global flood. So therefore I don't believe them. So no, her belief and my lack of belief aren't "the same."

    I do agree we should be happy on our own terms and not those of others. Unfortunately religions, especially fundamentalist ones, can't abide that. They frequently insist that "true" happiness is only found in their club. Which is manipulative BS that deserves to be called out.
     
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  16. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    We've already had this discusion today on another thread. The Super natural(if it exists is above our realm of understanding. So...
    -what evidence would you expect for the supernatural?
    -would you know it if you saw it?
    -does the super natural(if it exists) have rules? Who sets them?
    -the super natural(if it exists) won't confirm to the natural laws we know, what, if any laws would it follow?

    Believing in a god is nothing more than a choice and that choice is based on faith. A god existing or not existed cannot be shown by any science. A belief in god or a disbelief in god is fine and both are done by nothing more than faith. Their faith is a god does exist, your faith is a god doesn't exist. Evidence doesn't support either.

    If John believes and you don't, tell me how you are smarter and better than John. You arent, you just have different beliefs in life. That's that.
     
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  17. Left Coast

    Left Coast Active Member
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    I don't know the answer to any of these questions. I don't think anyone does, because the concept of the supernatural is unfalsifiable. Which is exactly why I don't believe in it. Thank you for asking the perfect questions to illustrate that.

    I disagree strongly. We don't choose our beliefs. We are genuinely convinced of something based on the evidence we've seen, and we call that state of genuinely being convinced, belief. I can't wake up tomorrow and decide I'm convinced there's a God.

    And faith is a terrible method for determining what we can reliably demonstrate is actually true/real. As you asked above, what rules govern whether we have faith in something or don't? If there are no rules other than what we make up, then we could literally have faith in anything, no matter how absurd.

    It depends entirely on what belief we're talking about what evidence there is for that belief. And it has nothing to do with being better or smarter than anyone else. It has to do with caring what is the best way for us to rationally understand reality.
     
    #17 Left Coast, Jun 21, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2019
  18. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    Belief doesn't need evidence, hence that's why it's called a belief.

    I agree, when it comes to the super natural it's unfalsifiable. Saying it does or doesn't exist is done on belief.

    We chose our beliefs just as much as we choose our favorite color or food. After all its our choice. What's your evidence for your favorite color other than your choice?

    I'm not going to argue the unknown because if it's unknown there is no point. Live life for you, your happiness, and that's all that matters. What and if anything happens after life, is unknown. Dead people don't talk.
     
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  19. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Being in a hopeless state is a recipe for being miserable. What hope do atheists have? All they have is today, right now, this minute....today or tomorrow your life might end and then there is nothing more. If I felt that this life was all there was, my life would indeed be miserable. Imagine someone born with a severe disability or who developed a terminal illness in childhood and they never got to live a 'normal' life,to enjoy the things that many of us take for granted....if this life is all they get, then Jehovah would indeed be a cruel and heartless God.

    He has asked us to bear with him whilst he deals with rebellion and eradicates it forever. I am willing to wait for what he promises because he is the only one who can actually deliver on his promises. Who do you depend on?

    My heart knows that life on this planet should be the opposite of what it is now. It is the collective desire of most humans to live a way different life....why is that? Why do we long for peace and security for ourselves and our loved ones? Why are we drawn to paradise locations? This life with all its uncertainty and tragedy might be enough for you...but it isn't enough for me. I know something better is coming because I have faith in my Creator. Not everyone has it but it can be nurtured if you feed it. Nature teaches us so much about the one who made it. Open your eyes.

    The Bible explains why we all seek something better. It's programmed into us...
    This life is a pathetic fake created by God's adversary in the hope that it will make people give up on belief in a benevolent Creator.....has he succeeded? Looks that way to me. But many have come to see through his deception.

    How do you know it isn't? In every culture in different parts of the world there is a flood story. How did that happen when there was no communication between nations thousands of years ago. They didn't know other cultures even existed, for the most part. That can only happen if the event impacted on the world to such an extent that it created legends in their history. Genesis explains how that happened.

    Why is God a terrible person for executing those who were committing capital crimes? He executed those who were offending him by their licentious and violent ways. So invasive was their influence, that only one family was seen to care anything about God and his laws. These were the only ones NOT breaking his laws. God didn't save them, but gave them instructions on how to save themselves...it was a monumental task and if they had faltered on any of God's instructions, no one would have survived that event.

    An executioner is not a murderer. Who has a better right to execute those who commit capital crimes than the Creator of life?

    You also forget that the one thing that God has that we do not, is the ability to restore life to those who merit his mercy.
    A God who means what he says, and does not just slap offenders on the wrist IS a God worth following. Don't we all wish he would come right now and rid the earth of those who are committing violence and immorality wantonly believing that they have a right to do whatever they like? Do you love this world? I don't...I am sickened by what humans are doing to this planet and to each other.....but its all unbelievers have. Its not all I have.
     
  20. lukethethird

    lukethethird Well-Known Member

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    Apparently it has something to do with shooting goldfish in a barrel.
     
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